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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raindancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2011 at 14:34
Originally posted by civalien civalien wrote:

From what I understand, the gap between the rich and the poor can only be closed if capitalism gives way to some new economic system.  Can that realistically happen?  What alternative system is there for western culture?


I think that even if we got a new economic system, there would still be people who had some power and who would do just anything to keep and increase it. It has always been like this. I don't believe it will ever change.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SayYourPrayers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2011 at 15:03
Originally posted by Raindancer Raindancer wrote:

I think that even if we got a new economic system, there would still be people who had some power and who would do just anything to keep and increase it. It has always been like this. I don't believe it will ever change.
 
This is why I don't believe in Anarchy. Even if you removed money, status, and class from our society, and then flashed forward 100 years into the future to where all influence of these things was null, you'd STILL have people arguing and battling it out over various issues. People disagree, and they seem to default to conflict to solve disagreements rather than cooperation. Anarchy seems rooted in the idea that social constructs are the cause of society's problems. I don't know if that's necessarily accurate.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drunk-sincerity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2011 at 09:34
I know it's not a popular opinion here but I accept Capitalism and don't view communism or socialism as a better alternative.  Of course Capitalism has massive flaws and there is corruption etc but no new system is going to change human nature.  I just think it is amusing to see all the protesters fighting corporations while they drink their cans of coke and make calls on their Iphones. 
    I can relate to those who are trying to improve the system through new regulations and controls but I don't really relate to the whole "break the system" argument.  I certainly don't agree with people wanting us all to be equal etc.  I make no secret that I want to be richer than each and every one of you, be it through luck or hard work ;)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HugeFanOfBadReligion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2011 at 13:28
Originally posted by drunk-sincerity drunk-sincerity wrote:

I just think it is amusing to see all the protesters fighting corporations while they drink their cans of coke and make calls on their Iphones.
The Occupy movement isn't about boycotting the products of the corporations or putting an end to the corporations, they just want some regulation which is more of something the government needs to do than the corporations themselves.
   
Quote I make no secret that I want to be richer than each and every one of you, be it through luck or hard work ;)
Just keep in mind that Jay is a member of this forum, and Bad Religion has sold many albums. Brett is also technically a member here, and he own's a fucking record label, so good luck with that. But also keep in mind that it either requires a lot of luck or privilege to become extremely rich. Sure, there are success stories of people who worked hard and came up with good ideas when they came from a poor background, but what many people don't see is the much more common type of person who comes from a poor background, works hard, and doesn't end up even remotely rich.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SayYourPrayers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2011 at 13:40
Originally posted by drunk-sincerity drunk-sincerity wrote:

I just think it is amusing to see all the protesters fighting corporations while they drink their cans of coke and make calls on their Iphones.
 
As has been said, it's not that the protesters want to ruin the corporations. Sure, some do, but the media has tried very hard to use the vagueness of the message against the movement and claim that they're trying to smash capitalism or whatever. This entire movement stems from the lack of two things: income inequality, where we see that wages are not keeping pace with the cost of living, while CEO's are making billions in bonuses for sinking their corporations into the Red, and the other is market deregulation, where corporations are being allowed to get away with all kinds of unethical behavior by virtue of their size and stature in the global economy. This isn't right. I personally am not a fan of consumerism, and it seems funny to me to be railing against the influence of corporations while simultaneously supporting them through purchasing, but that's a personal battle for everyone. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anti- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2011 at 14:02
And the protesters aren't really happy about how much influence the big corporations have over the government...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robo Pilgrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2011 at 14:12
The movement is against the business practises of the corporations, not necessarily against the products they sell.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drunk-sincerity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2011 at 23:53
Yes, all fair points, I didn;t mean everyone that is at the demonstrations are like that, but like it or not there are loads of those kind of people,  I was in London a few weeks ago and to be honest, the people who wanted to "burn Star Bucks" were the people who were making the most noise. 
   I also said that I am in favour of more regulations and rules for corporations etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SayYourPrayers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2011 at 08:05
Originally posted by drunk-sincerity drunk-sincerity wrote:

Yes, all fair points, I didn;t mean everyone that is at the demonstrations are like that, but like it or not there are loads of those kind of people,  I was in London a few weeks ago and to be honest, the people who wanted to "burn Star Bucks" were the people who were making the most noise. 
   I also said that I am in favour of more regulations and rules for corporations etc.
First of all, I guess I was unaware that this movement had gone international, so that's a good thing. Although I have no idea how foreign economies work so I guess it remains to be seen whether the message is transcendent.
 
Secondly, this is a major issue with the movement here in the states, and not just this one specificially. Each demonstration attracts a small element of Anarchists and other..."fringe groups"...which typically are singled out by the media as typifiying the entire crowd. Of course, not all people at a protest are Anarchists. In fact, these sorts are a very definite minority in protests. But the media love to play them up both to work a story, and to shed a negative light on the message.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AnarchoDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/25/2012 at 01:07
BOOM, OAKLAND



Edited by AnarchoDude - 01/25/2012 at 01:09
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SayYourPrayers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/30/2012 at 07:09
*BUMP3D*
 
Tomorrow is May Day, the international workers' rights day. Occupy protesters are joining with other groups around the country. Should be interesting to see what turns up. Here in Portland we have a history of violent May Day protests.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Recard86 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/30/2012 at 11:15
Originally posted by SayYourPrayers SayYourPrayers wrote:

*BUMP3D*
 
Tomorrow is May Day, the international workers' rights day. Occupy protesters are joining with other groups around the country. Should be interesting to see what turns up. Here in Portland we have a history of violent May Day protests.


May day was awesome when i was in canada, and i was actually working there too. Had a big party all night at this infoshop i used to hang out at, and then at one point what looked like a mix between police and military showed up and stood in a line across the street all in riot gear for like 30 minutes ready to go in, then we had this lawyer reading them the law too, and after a while they left.

I was really fucked up though i guess, but May day still fucking rocks, should make every day May first!

I hate that with this town though (small swedish town) it's pretty "apolitical" and people are quite pacified, rather watch tv then go out and demonstrate.


Edited by Recard86 - 04/30/2012 at 11:16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Recard86 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/30/2012 at 11:24
"Don't forget to let your life rot you inside out"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Recard86 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/30/2012 at 11:27
Someone should make a "May 1'st" topic and put our comments above in it.Or maybe not.


Edited by Recard86 - 04/30/2012 at 11:33
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Recard86 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/30/2012 at 12:00
"Don't forget to let your life rot you inside out"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SayYourPrayers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/17/2012 at 14:51
Today marks the one year anniversary of the movement, and I personally don't see how much good it's really done. There hasn't been any real political action stemming from it, and even though it has certainly gained recognition in the press and has had minor cultural success, I think most people see it as more of an indicator of political leaning than anything else. It seems to be categorized as a movement for young idealists and old hippies. I took part in several of the marches in town here, but the hopes I had for it have mostly vanished over the last year. What's annoying is that it really does appear that just being frustrated isn't enough anymore - if you're going to be mad, it seems like you have to be able to point to something specific and say, 'this is why I'm mad.' If you can't, nobody will listen.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote -Fatal- Apocalypse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/17/2012 at 15:50
Originally posted by SayYourPrayers SayYourPrayers wrote:

What's annoying is that it really does appear that just being frustrated isn't enough anymore - if you're going to be mad, it seems like you have to be able to point to something specific and say, 'this is why I'm mad.' If you can't, nobody will listen.
 
Well even if you couldn't, you still did, and yes, I listened.
 
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Originally posted by Propagandhi Propagandhi wrote:

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Some Guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/17/2012 at 16:30
It's a shame. It could have put some pressure on politicians to enact some actual change in this country if it had had a specific set of demands, like switching to instant runoff voting system In federal elections, or ending the war in Afghanistan. Instead, the message that people got out of the movement is that people are pissed off that the economy sucks, which was news to no one and not concrete enough to pressure the government to do anything. Without focusing that rage towards some sort of specific goal, the whole thing became just a bunch of impotent rage directed at the system. Good to know that it's out there, I guess, but it wasn't able to produce anything of worth.


Edited by Some Guy - 09/17/2012 at 17:54
Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself. It's made up of two separate words: "mank" and "ind." What do these words mean? It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote punkrockjustin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/17/2012 at 17:11
Well, change takes time, no?  It's only been a year... Maybe we don't need to write it off just yet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldmrfletcher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/17/2012 at 18:00
Or perhaps half the people should know what theyre protesting about instead of damning all big businesses with ipad in hand. It wore off because it may have started a movement but became a fad.
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