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    Posted: 03/31/2012 at 11:01
Originally posted by n1ckb0n3z n1ckb0n3z wrote:

Originally posted by golden golden wrote:

Originally posted by BringBRTotheUK BringBRTotheUK wrote:

I did not know that you are a Christian - I always thought the religious fans of BR that Greg talks about were imaginary. 
 
Music is about sound... The lyrics that go with the music may be very important. But bands like the Ramones showed that you can be a powerful influence on music, without  ever writing a meaningful lyric.
 
That being said, the lyrics that Greg and Brett write are often not black & white and many can be interpreted in different ways. What may be clear to you, may mean something totally different to someone else. Although Greg's lyrics especially, have many times been clearly pointed at the belief in God, or the institution of religion, to me, it hardly defines all that he and the band has to offer. I always thought it was strange that someone would think that everyone who liked Bad Religion was an atheist .
I whole heartedly agree with you, golden. The thing that attracted me to BR years ago was their sound. I am just now finding about what their lyrics mean.
Agree with both of you guys and I still don't care always about the lyrics, in first place I enjoy their melodies, Greg's voice and then the rest of the music and lyrics come last.  There are many songs which lyrics I don't understand or understand  them partially but still love the song.
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Originally posted by golden golden wrote:

Originally posted by BringBRTotheUK BringBRTotheUK wrote:

I did not know that you are a Christian - I always thought the religious fans of BR that Greg talks about were imaginary. 
 
Music is about sound... The lyrics that go with the music may be very important. But bands like the Ramones showed that you can be a powerful influence on music, without  ever writing a meaningful lyric.
 
That being said, the lyrics that Greg and Brett write are often not black & white and many can be interpreted in different ways. What may be clear to you, may mean something totally different to someone else. Although Greg's lyrics especially, have many times been clearly pointed at the belief in God, or the institution of religion, to me, it hardly defines all that he and the band has to offer. I always thought it was strange that someone would think that everyone who liked Bad Religion was an atheist .
I whole heartedly agree with you, golden. The thing that attracted me to BR years ago was their sound. I am just now finding about what their lyrics mean.
I want BR to play Anesthesia in every language at every country they go to.
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Originally posted by golden golden wrote:

I am sure people on the Bad Religion forum are for the most part, more apt to look as deeply as possible into the points their favorite band may be making. I just don't think a rational person would dismiss them for the things they say in their songs..
 
I also think any rational person understands that the foot you put forward is the foot people notice. Whether it's fair or not, first impressions are lasting impressions. I think Greg and Brett are smart enough to understand this and so I think it's totally reasonable to assume that they're fine being thought of as anti-religious.
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...a band logo made by teenagers offending people... inconceivable!
 
I am sure people on the Bad Religion forum are for the most part, more apt to look as deeply as possible into the points their favorite band may be making. I just don't think a rational person would dismiss them for the things they say in their songs. If you only listen (not only in music, but in life in general)  to those that share and agree with our own beliefs, you live in a narrow passage. Believing that we are the only ones that possibly could be right, puts us in a boat, with many of the same people we claim to loathe. 
 
My parents might have rolled their eyes @the cross buster, but they were not afraid of it. They knew the decisions we make in life, our ours to make. And they were always very religious, and smart and thoughtful people. And thier example to me was based on  their values.
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Originally posted by Robo Pilgrim Robo Pilgrim wrote:

I liked the guy with the unicorn T-shirt.
Big surprise...
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I liked the guy with the unicorn T-shirt.
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Originally posted by golden golden wrote:

Originally posted by BringBRTotheUK BringBRTotheUK wrote:

I did not know that you are a Christian - I always thought the religious fans of BR that Greg talks about were imaginary. 
 
Music is about sound... The lyrics that go with the music may be very important. But bands like the Ramones showed that you can be a powerful influence on music, without  ever writing a meaningful lyric.
 
That being said, the lyrics that Greg and Brett write are often not black & white and many can be interpreted in different ways. What may be clear to you, may mean something totally different to someone else. Although Greg's lyrics especially, have many times been clearly pointed at the belief in God, or the institution of religion, to me, it hardly defines all that he and the band has to offer. I always thought it was strange that someone would think that everyone who liked Bad Religion was an atheist .

 
No matter how much Greg tries to turn the cross buster into something benign with fun 'no parking' analogies, it will always remain immediately offensive to Christians and most likely a deterrent.

If I started a band called 'No Blacks', no matter how intelligent my lyrics turned out to be I would always end up alienating a majority of people before the word go.

P.S. I know that 'no blacks' and 'no christianity' probably shouldn't be conflated but I can't be bothered to re write my analogy.
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Originally posted by golden golden wrote:

 I always thought it was strange that someone would think that everyone who liked Bad Religion was an atheist .
 
I certainly don't suggest that Bad Religion tries to convert people to atheism, but I do believe that their message eventually winds up at the conclussion that belief in gods or acceptance of religion can only be considered a choice. I think for people who really listen to their music with an open mind, religion (if not the very idea of god itself) is a very difficult thing to give credence to. No, of course not all fans of the band are or should be atheist, but I don't think it a stretch to assume a large amount have some measure of doubt regarding issues of god and religion.
Luxury was priviledge and I knew it all along. But to let human reason get trumped by emotion is wrong.
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Originally posted by BringBRTotheUK BringBRTotheUK wrote:

I did not know that you are a Christian - I always thought the religious fans of BR that Greg talks about were imaginary. 
 
Music is about sound... The lyrics that go with the music may be very important. But bands like the Ramones showed that you can be a powerful influence on music, without  ever writing a meaningful lyric.
 
That being said, the lyrics that Greg and Brett write are often not black & white and many can be interpreted in different ways. What may be clear to you, may mean something totally different to someone else. Although Greg's lyrics especially, have many times been clearly pointed at the belief in God, or the institution of religion, to me, it hardly defines all that he and the band has to offer. I always thought it was strange that someone would think that everyone who liked Bad Religion was an atheist .


Edited by golden - 03/29/2012 at 15:18
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Originally posted by kariscene kariscene wrote:

Idk guys, this rally looked way more "fun"

The only time I've ever seen more old white people is at a Denny's on Sunday morning.
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Idk guys, this rally looked way more "fun"
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I'm the one not in the picture :)

Edit: until Torbar photoshops my goggles head on there someplace.


Edited by simian - 03/28/2012 at 21:30
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With such a good looking crew like this assembled, I don't know how anyone could say' "There is no God". 
 
Hope you all had a good time...


Edited by golden - 03/28/2012 at 19:16
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Originally posted by Robo Pilgrim Robo Pilgrim wrote:

I don't think challenging a person's beliefs should necessarily make them change, but it's good to make them think and see things from a different perspective. And there have been plenty of instances where people have left their religion because they read or heard something debunking it, though it does result in stubbornness as well.
I guess I should have said that criticism is fine, because criticism does indeed give people reason to question and does encourage them to look at something from a different angle. I was more speaking toward the idea of being negative toward someone's belief. Challenge and critcism can be effective, but I don't think negativity ever really is.
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Originally posted by SayYourPrayers SayYourPrayers wrote:

Originally posted by Robo Pilgrim Robo Pilgrim wrote:

My only real problem with the rally is that it perpetuated the idea that secularism = atheism when it should be neither theistic nor atheistic.


I noticed this also from the speakers I heard on the internet stream. It seems like a lot of people wanted to assert their atheism given the venue, which is understandable, but there should have been much more emphasis on secularism and not just atheism.
 

As for being "allowed to voice negative or critical opinions" on religious beliefs, that's perfectly fine, but what purpose would that serve? I can't think of many scenarios in which someone would be inclined to change their beliefs on something simply because others voiced criticism of those beliefs. Usually that causes stubbornness and resentment.   


I don't think challenging a person's beliefs should necessarily make them change, but it's good to make them think and see things from a different perspective. And there have been plenty of instances where people have left their religion because they read or heard something debunking it, though it does result in stubbornness as well.
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Cool photo guys 
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Originally posted by Robo Pilgrim Robo Pilgrim wrote:

My only real problem with the rally is that it perpetuated the idea that secularism = atheism when it should be neither theistic nor atheistic.
I noticed this also from the speakers I heard on the internet stream. It seems like a lot of people wanted to assert their atheism given the venue, which is understandable, but there should have been much more emphasis on secularism and not just atheism.
 
As for being "allowed to voice negative or critical opinions" on religious beliefs, that's perfectly fine, but what purpose would that serve? I can't think of many scenarios in which someone would be inclined to change their beliefs on something simply because others voiced criticism of those beliefs. Usually that causes stubbornness and resentment.   
Luxury was priviledge and I knew it all along. But to let human reason get trumped by emotion is wrong.
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My only real problem with the rally is that it perpetuated the idea that secularism = atheism when it should be neither theistic nor atheistic. As for challenging people's beliefs, I respect their right to beliefs even if I can't respect the belief itself. And while I don't like to be confrontational I do think we should be allowed to voice negative or critical opinions on them.
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i'm offended the writer of this blog/article couldnt spell Paterson NJ right! 
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