Forum | The Bad Religion Page - Since 1995 Reason Rally - March 24th, 2012 - The Bad Religion page forum - Page 9
Quote of the day: "It's the way of the dodo, such a noble destiny" - The Dodo
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Reason Rally - March 24th, 2012
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Reason Rally - March 24th, 2012

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 78910>
Author
kyana View Drop Down
Lost Pilgrim
Lost Pilgrim
Avatar

Joined: 12/29/2010
Location: EU, Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 19
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kyana Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/27/2012 at 09:23
To me, Infected sounded amazing. I'm so happy they have decided to gig on RR. Dawkins and BR in one place, just like a dream. Unfortunately, I was in Poland, preparing for my exams.
So on stage we have: UCLA professor, the head of a record label, 2 legendary guitarists, 1 very cool and kind bass player, one of the best drummers. I think that explains why they kick so much ass.
Back to Top
SayYourPrayers View Drop Down
Billy Gnosis
Billy Gnosis
Avatar
Thread Revivalist

Joined: 07/23/2011
Location: Portland
Status: Offline
Points: 1389
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SayYourPrayers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/27/2012 at 12:26
Originally posted by Robo Pilgrim Robo Pilgrim wrote:

Originally posted by simian simian wrote:

Well, it all depends on how you interpret his idea of mocking. I've seen Dawkins actually confront religious people about their beliefs, and he's nowhere near as mean-spirited about it as his use of the terms "ridicule and mock" suggest. I think he is probably using poor words for what he's really suggesting that people do.



Based on some other things he's said about religion I took it to mean don't be afraid to say what you really think about someone's beliefs. He's often spoken of how religion is given a great amount of respect without having to earn it.
 
I think it's fair to say that religion doesn't deserve the reverence it's given, but I think Dawkins is too vague with his message when it comes to challenging people on their religious beliefs. Frankly, I see no reason to even slightly challenege someone who holds religious beliefs, so long as they do not attempt force their opinions on others. I do not give anyone a hard time for liking rap, for example. If you like it, that's your deal. But if you try telling me that it's better than another genre, or tell me I'm stupid for not liking it, then I definetly will give you an ear full. Beliefs don't really need to be challenged until they begin to have a negative effect on others.
Careful man, there's a beverage here!
Back to Top
BringBRTotheUK View Drop Down
Billy Gnosis
Billy Gnosis
Avatar
demonomaniac

Joined: 05/21/2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1386
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BringBRTotheUK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/27/2012 at 12:33
@Frod

I did not know that you are a Christian - I always thought the religious fans of BR that Greg talks about were imaginary. Thanks for writing out that review, it made a good read, though I can't stand Tim Minchin.

Regarding Dawkins' speech that I watched on the stream in my dry house: I hasten to agree with any criticisms. I like to watch Dawkins debate half baked religious arguments, and I really enjoyed his selfish gene book (he pretty much got me interested in science). However, I think he turned me into a bit of a fundamentalist on the matter of religion. It is easy to forget that their are some thoughtful religious people out there, and that even the thoughtless ones deserve more respect than Richard Dawkins' speech might suggest.

I personally agree with Richard Dawkins on a lot of the things he says on religion, though I don't agree with the vilification that he appeared to frontier on that rainy Saturday. I think there is a thin line between defence and offence that the atheist community should try to steer clear of.
 

 
A slightly clearer video of Greg's national anthem singing^




Edited by BringBRTotheUK - 03/27/2012 at 13:12
Back to Top
patricke1660 View Drop Down
Modern Man
Modern Man
Avatar

Joined: 07/07/2010
Location: Flyover Country
Status: Offline
Points: 728
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patricke1660 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/27/2012 at 13:30
 
 
Read this article the other day, and it made dislike Silverman quite a bit. I'm definitely not Christian, but as SYP says above, there is no point in directing so much hatred and/or ridicule towards them for their beliefs.
 
That said, I'm a huge believer in separation of church and state. No religious groups (including aetheists) should attempt to dominate public policy to enforce their ideals on others.
 
I don't really know since I wasn't there, but from an outside perspective, it seems a shame that this rally wasn't better focused. We really do need some "reason" in this country. I'm not sure this event did anything to improve anything.
Human beings are the only creatures on earth that claim a god and the only living thing that behaves like it hasn't got one.
Back to Top
frod79 View Drop Down
The Same Person
The Same Person
Avatar
Frod Almighty

Joined: 10/21/2010
Location: OlivGardenState
Status: Offline
Points: 3473
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote frod79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/27/2012 at 13:55
i'm offended the writer of this blog/article couldnt spell Paterson NJ right! 
"Some claim there was no great shoeman in the sky, others say the answer won't be known until the other shoe drops" - Al Bundy
Back to Top
Robo Pilgrim View Drop Down
Generator
Generator
Avatar
linkage robot

Joined: 11/10/2008
Location: the moon
Status: Offline
Points: 4149
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robo Pilgrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/28/2012 at 09:56
My only real problem with the rally is that it perpetuated the idea that secularism = atheism when it should be neither theistic nor atheistic. As for challenging people's beliefs, I respect their right to beliefs even if I can't respect the belief itself. And while I don't like to be confrontational I do think we should be allowed to voice negative or critical opinions on them.
I'm The Greatest™
Back to Top
SayYourPrayers View Drop Down
Billy Gnosis
Billy Gnosis
Avatar
Thread Revivalist

Joined: 07/23/2011
Location: Portland
Status: Offline
Points: 1389
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SayYourPrayers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/28/2012 at 10:09
Originally posted by Robo Pilgrim Robo Pilgrim wrote:

My only real problem with the rally is that it perpetuated the idea that secularism = atheism when it should be neither theistic nor atheistic.
I noticed this also from the speakers I heard on the internet stream. It seems like a lot of people wanted to assert their atheism given the venue, which is understandable, but there should have been much more emphasis on secularism and not just atheism.
 
As for being "allowed to voice negative or critical opinions" on religious beliefs, that's perfectly fine, but what purpose would that serve? I can't think of many scenarios in which someone would be inclined to change their beliefs on something simply because others voiced criticism of those beliefs. Usually that causes stubbornness and resentment.   
Careful man, there's a beverage here!
Back to Top
BRP View Drop Down
Modern Man
Modern Man
Avatar

Joined: 04/06/2009
Location: Illinois
Status: Offline
Points: 786
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/28/2012 at 12:54
Back to Top
Viktor View Drop Down
Billy Gnosis
Billy Gnosis
Avatar

Joined: 12/10/2008
Location: Skopje
Status: Offline
Points: 1044
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Viktor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/28/2012 at 13:07
Cool photo guys 
They said that islands were solid as bedrock standing firm forevermore, but over time even basement wastes away to the unrelenting shore
Back to Top
Robo Pilgrim View Drop Down
Generator
Generator
Avatar
linkage robot

Joined: 11/10/2008
Location: the moon
Status: Offline
Points: 4149
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robo Pilgrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/28/2012 at 13:18
Originally posted by SayYourPrayers SayYourPrayers wrote:

Originally posted by Robo Pilgrim Robo Pilgrim wrote:

My only real problem with the rally is that it perpetuated the idea that secularism = atheism when it should be neither theistic nor atheistic.


I noticed this also from the speakers I heard on the internet stream. It seems like a lot of people wanted to assert their atheism given the venue, which is understandable, but there should have been much more emphasis on secularism and not just atheism.
 

As for being "allowed to voice negative or critical opinions" on religious beliefs, that's perfectly fine, but what purpose would that serve? I can't think of many scenarios in which someone would be inclined to change their beliefs on something simply because others voiced criticism of those beliefs. Usually that causes stubbornness and resentment.   


I don't think challenging a person's beliefs should necessarily make them change, but it's good to make them think and see things from a different perspective. And there have been plenty of instances where people have left their religion because they read or heard something debunking it, though it does result in stubbornness as well.
I'm The Greatest™
Back to Top
SayYourPrayers View Drop Down
Billy Gnosis
Billy Gnosis
Avatar
Thread Revivalist

Joined: 07/23/2011
Location: Portland
Status: Offline
Points: 1389
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SayYourPrayers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/28/2012 at 13:35
Originally posted by Robo Pilgrim Robo Pilgrim wrote:

I don't think challenging a person's beliefs should necessarily make them change, but it's good to make them think and see things from a different perspective. And there have been plenty of instances where people have left their religion because they read or heard something debunking it, though it does result in stubbornness as well.
I guess I should have said that criticism is fine, because criticism does indeed give people reason to question and does encourage them to look at something from a different angle. I was more speaking toward the idea of being negative toward someone's belief. Challenge and critcism can be effective, but I don't think negativity ever really is.
Careful man, there's a beverage here!
Back to Top
golden View Drop Down
Blenderhead
Blenderhead


Joined: 10/02/2010
Location: Buffalo, NY
Status: Offline
Points: 89
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote golden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/28/2012 at 19:14
With such a good looking crew like this assembled, I don't know how anyone could say' "There is no God". 
 
Hope you all had a good time...


Edited by golden - 03/28/2012 at 19:16
Back to Top
simian View Drop Down
Billy Gnosis
Billy Gnosis
Avatar
Avatar Nauseam

Joined: 11/20/2008
Location: Baltimore, MD
Status: Offline
Points: 1420
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote simian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/28/2012 at 21:29
I'm the one not in the picture :)

Edit: until Torbar photoshops my goggles head on there someplace.


Edited by simian - 03/28/2012 at 21:30
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." - Henry Louis Mencken
Back to Top
kariscene View Drop Down
Man With A Mission
Man With A Mission
Avatar
Ultimate Brett Fangirl

Joined: 03/20/2010
Location: Impure Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 870
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kariscene Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/29/2012 at 12:24
Idk guys, this rally looked way more "fun"

Give us this day our daily Brett.    http://fuckyeahbrettgurewitz.tumblr.com/
Back to Top
SayYourPrayers View Drop Down
Billy Gnosis
Billy Gnosis
Avatar
Thread Revivalist

Joined: 07/23/2011
Location: Portland
Status: Offline
Points: 1389
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SayYourPrayers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/29/2012 at 13:16
Originally posted by kariscene kariscene wrote:

Idk guys, this rally looked way more "fun"

The only time I've ever seen more old white people is at a Denny's on Sunday morning.
Careful man, there's a beverage here!
Back to Top
golden View Drop Down
Blenderhead
Blenderhead


Joined: 10/02/2010
Location: Buffalo, NY
Status: Offline
Points: 89
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote golden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/29/2012 at 15:15
Originally posted by BringBRTotheUK BringBRTotheUK wrote:

I did not know that you are a Christian - I always thought the religious fans of BR that Greg talks about were imaginary. 
 
Music is about sound... The lyrics that go with the music may be very important. But bands like the Ramones showed that you can be a powerful influence on music, without  ever writing a meaningful lyric.
 
That being said, the lyrics that Greg and Brett write are often not black & white and many can be interpreted in different ways. What may be clear to you, may mean something totally different to someone else. Although Greg's lyrics especially, have many times been clearly pointed at the belief in God, or the institution of religion, to me, it hardly defines all that he and the band has to offer. I always thought it was strange that someone would think that everyone who liked Bad Religion was an atheist .


Edited by golden - 03/29/2012 at 15:18
Back to Top
SayYourPrayers View Drop Down
Billy Gnosis
Billy Gnosis
Avatar
Thread Revivalist

Joined: 07/23/2011
Location: Portland
Status: Offline
Points: 1389
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SayYourPrayers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/29/2012 at 15:28
Originally posted by golden golden wrote:

 I always thought it was strange that someone would think that everyone who liked Bad Religion was an atheist .
 
I certainly don't suggest that Bad Religion tries to convert people to atheism, but I do believe that their message eventually winds up at the conclussion that belief in gods or acceptance of religion can only be considered a choice. I think for people who really listen to their music with an open mind, religion (if not the very idea of god itself) is a very difficult thing to give credence to. No, of course not all fans of the band are or should be atheist, but I don't think it a stretch to assume a large amount have some measure of doubt regarding issues of god and religion.
Careful man, there's a beverage here!
Back to Top
BringBRTotheUK View Drop Down
Billy Gnosis
Billy Gnosis
Avatar
demonomaniac

Joined: 05/21/2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1386
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BringBRTotheUK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/29/2012 at 15:43
Originally posted by golden golden wrote:

Originally posted by BringBRTotheUK BringBRTotheUK wrote:

I did not know that you are a Christian - I always thought the religious fans of BR that Greg talks about were imaginary. 
 
Music is about sound... The lyrics that go with the music may be very important. But bands like the Ramones showed that you can be a powerful influence on music, without  ever writing a meaningful lyric.
 
That being said, the lyrics that Greg and Brett write are often not black & white and many can be interpreted in different ways. What may be clear to you, may mean something totally different to someone else. Although Greg's lyrics especially, have many times been clearly pointed at the belief in God, or the institution of religion, to me, it hardly defines all that he and the band has to offer. I always thought it was strange that someone would think that everyone who liked Bad Religion was an atheist .

 
No matter how much Greg tries to turn the cross buster into something benign with fun 'no parking' analogies, it will always remain immediately offensive to Christians and most likely a deterrent.

If I started a band called 'No Blacks', no matter how intelligent my lyrics turned out to be I would always end up alienating a majority of people before the word go.

P.S. I know that 'no blacks' and 'no christianity' probably shouldn't be conflated but I can't be bothered to re write my analogy.
Back to Top
Robo Pilgrim View Drop Down
Generator
Generator
Avatar
linkage robot

Joined: 11/10/2008
Location: the moon
Status: Offline
Points: 4149
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robo Pilgrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/29/2012 at 16:30
I liked the guy with the unicorn T-shirt.
I'm The Greatest™
Back to Top
SayYourPrayers View Drop Down
Billy Gnosis
Billy Gnosis
Avatar
Thread Revivalist

Joined: 07/23/2011
Location: Portland
Status: Offline
Points: 1389
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SayYourPrayers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/29/2012 at 16:43
Originally posted by Robo Pilgrim Robo Pilgrim wrote:

I liked the guy with the unicorn T-shirt.
Big surprise...
Careful man, there's a beverage here!
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 78910>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 10.11
Copyright ©2001-2012 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 1.918 seconds.