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Into the Unknown (Mystery)

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    Posted: 08/01/2019 at 23:41

Hi everyone,


I am a huge BR fan, and am new to this forum.  I was recently lucky enough to find a vinyl version of 'Into the Unknown' that was mislabeled as a bootleg on ebay for $18. I took a closer look at the listing photos and observed a few things that caught my attention. Number one, the album had a wear ring on its cover. It is my understanding that most bootleg copies of this album came out within the last year or so. So, unless the previous owner listened to the album 15 times per day (Which may not be physically possible) my thought was that that type of cover wear would be highly unlikely. The second thing that caught my attention was the water damage to the lower half of the album. Now this may be a huge stretch so bear with me, but I have read that a number of ‘Into the Unknown’ copies were destroyed in Jay Bentley's mom's basement when her water heater burst. (You can see how tantalizing this prospect was for me.) Needless to say, I hit the “buy it now” button. 


About 8-9 days later I received the album. The first thing I did upon opening it was to inspect the inside of the cover. To my relief, the previously white sleeve was yellowed with age and it had the distinct odor of the 1980's. Also, the original lyrics sheet and Epitaph flyer were located inside. No pixelation, and excellent print quality.


A close inspection of the record itself revealed the matrix numbers L-14125-X, and L-14125 (The Greg Lee Processing Matrix numbers indicating it is an original from 1983.) 


Also, inscribed on the vinyl were the numbers EPI-BRLP-2A-3 and EPI-BRLP-2B-3. (This is the part that boggles my mind) See, the original album is supposed to have the matrix runout numbers of EPI-BRLP-2A-2 and EPI-BRLP-2B-2. Either this is an all togeather unknown version of "Into the Unknown" or sometype of misprint. I've searched a few sites inclusing Discogs, with no luck.


If anyone can help me solve this mystery, I would greatly appreciate it. 


Thank you very much!!



-Chase


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/02/2019 at 09:59
This is really really interesting. The difference in runout numbers almost suggests it's another pressing. A total of 10,000 were made and from what we've learned, there was absolutely no reason at all to make more. Unless, of course, it was actually 2x5000....

The rest of the text is the same? EPI-BRLP-2A-2 L-14125 / EPI-BRLP-2B-2 L-14125-X

I think everyone needs to check their copy!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Banjo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/02/2019 at 11:25
I could be completely wrong but I'm sure I read somewhere that ITU was bootlegged upon release. Brett joked in an interview that Epitaph shipped 10,000 copies and got 11,000 back. Just because it's old doesn't mean it's legit but I think it's definitely more likely to be legit than a pristine black vinyl one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote torbar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/02/2019 at 12:07
Originally posted by Banjo Banjo wrote:

I could be completely wrong but I'm sure I read somewhere that ITU was bootlegged upon release. Brett joked in an interview that Epitaph shipped 10,000 copies and got 11,000 back. Just because it's old doesn't mean it's legit but I think it's definitely more likely to be legit than a pristine black vinyl one.
Yeah, I do remember reading somewhere that one that was sent back was in fact a bootleg(and the person got their money back from it)
Also back in like 2005 when I was looking for a copy I saw quite a few bootlegs on ebay
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChasEx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/02/2019 at 17:04
Thanks for responding to my post. I'm going to post some photos I took of the album for you to check out. An interesting detail that I failed to mention earlier is that the "-3" is extremely light. Almost latent. Would you mind sending a couple pics of the runout etchings on your ITU album,so we can compare?
 Thanks!


Chase
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChasEx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/02/2019 at 17:10
Originally posted by torbar torbar wrote:

Originally posted by Banjo Banjo wrote:

I could be completely wrong but I'm sure I read somewhere that ITU was bootlegged upon release. Brett joked in an interview that Epitaph shipped 10,000 copies and got 11,000 back. Just because it's old doesn't mean it's legit but I think it's definitely more likely to be legit than a pristine black vinyl one.
Yeah, I do remember reading somewhere that one that was sent back was in fact a bootleg(and the person got their money back from it)
Also back in like 2005 when I was looking for a copy I saw quite a few bootlegs on ebay

You may be right. I just think the detail/quality is too precise to be a bootleg copy. I'm working on gathering more information though. I'd love to compare the runout handwriting/etchings of a authentic ITU album. Thanks for the feedback!

Chase
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sergidotme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/03/2019 at 00:44
I own an original "Into to Unknown copy"bought in ebay several years ago (maybe 15?). We check and compare and see the differences.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChasEx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/03/2019 at 07:20
Originally posted by sergidotme sergidotme wrote:

I own an original "Into to Unknown copy"bought in ebay several years ago (maybe 15?). We check and compare and see the differences.



Thanks. Would you mind posting photos?

Chase
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sergidotme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/03/2019 at 11:09
Hello all,

Upload some pictures... sorry by quality but i'm doing some home rapairs and I reflex camera is not accessible.


One of both numbers of the disk (side a)

The images needs to be reside late going to do it. Only for help to this interesting mistery

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChasEx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/03/2019 at 15:06
Originally posted by sergidotme sergidotme wrote:

Hello all,

Upload some pictures... sorry by quality but i'm doing some home rapairs and I reflex camera is not accessible.


One of both numbers of the disk (side a)

The images needs to be reside late going to do it. Only for help to this interesting mistery



Thanks for posting! I am not a handwriting expert by any stretch, but the writing looks almost idenitcal to my copy. If you have a another photo I'd love to look at it. 

Chase
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/04/2019 at 13:28
Turns out our copy has a very light "1" on both sides.
Intriguing!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robo Pilgrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/04/2019 at 14:13
Originally posted by Marty Marty wrote:

Turns out our copy has a very light "1" on both sides.
Intriguing!

Mine appears to have one on the B side but not the A side.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChasEx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/04/2019 at 15:46
Originally posted by Marty Marty wrote:

Turns out our copy has a very light "1" on both sides.
Intriguing!

The plot thickens! Thank you so much for posting this !! I compared the etchings on our albums, and they appear identical. I would love to get to the bottom of the faint "-1" and "-3" though.

Chase
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/05/2019 at 20:46
Hi Chase, awesome find!
I'd have to say, everything seems to point to this being a separate pressing, which is interesting given the backstory of this album.
I don't have a copy, but on ebay uk currently there is one with brilliant photos of the run out
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BAD-RELIGION-INTO-THE-UNKNOWN-1st-Press-Epitath-Records-EPI-BRLP2-MINT-INSERTS/264414729531?hash=item3d9058953b:g:-p8AAOSwDSRdNlID

It shows EPI- BRLP - 2A and ERP-BRLP-2B L-14125. No mention is made of any extra X, -1, -2 or -3.

I'm wondering, how much would it have cost to press 10,000 vinyl? Is it feasable that as money came through, different batches were pressed in a very short timeframe, which resulted in the extra numbers being added?

Edited by Marty - 08/05/2019 at 23:39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChasEx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/05/2019 at 21:31
Originally posted by Alice Alice wrote:

Hi Chase, awesome find!
I'd have to say, everything seems to point to this being a separate pressing, which is interesting given the backstory of this album.
I don't have a copy, but on ebay uk currently there is one with brilliant photos of the run out
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BAD-RELIGION-INTO-THE-UNKNOWN-1st-Press-Epitath-Records-EPI-BRLP2-MINT-INSERTS/264414729531?hash=item3d9058953b:g:-p8AAOSwDSRdNlID

It shows EPI- BRLP - 2A and ERP-BRLP-2B L-14125. No mention is made of any extra X, -1, -2 or -3.

I'm wondering, how much would it have cost to press 10,000 vinyl? Is it feasable that as money came through, different batches were pressed in a very short timeframe, which resulted in the extra numbers being added?

Alice,
 
Thank you for replying!! And if you can, take another look at the photos on the link you sent me. I can clearly see a "-3" on both sides after the runout. That is a beautiful copy of the record BTW.

Chase
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/05/2019 at 23:44
Yeah, the "-3" is definitelty there in the ebay photos.

So what we have so far:
- ChasEx with "-3" on both sides
- Marty with "-1" on both sides
- Robo Pilgrim with "-1" on only the B side  (are you really sure?)

... and our Discography says "-2".

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote friteman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/06/2019 at 06:16
And all the ones on discogs at the moment say "-2"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/06/2019 at 08:17
Could this be the numbers game?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LV97 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/06/2019 at 09:20
I think that Brett's joke about sending 10.000 and getting 11.000 back was about poor reception of the album, not about bootlegging, but I don't remember that interview very precisely.


Mine has
On side one:
L-14125
EPI-BRLP-2A

On side two
L-14125-X
EPI-BRLP-2B

(tested putting a bright light close to the disc and looking close, no extra number, now I have no idea if it's genuine or bootleg)

Edited by LV97 - 08/06/2019 at 09:29
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 14bright14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/06/2019 at 20:38
I only have the box set.

Only cool thing mine says is "billy gnosis returns" lol


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