cool, I kind of thought so. Thanks!

"Comments by Mike from Canada on 2007-05-17 @ 04:20
Jay, I thought of another good question I think a lot of people would be interested in knowing the answer to. When you guys play Atomic Garden, how do you decide what to rant about in the outro? Is it an on-the-spot stream of consciousness, or do you plan out the phrases or topics earlier in the day/show/tour, etc.?">>>>>
i just make it up on the spot... whatever i'm pissed about.

Can you say "Surfin' Bird?" And you know what? Performed by Greg, this would totally work as a song intro onstage! Check this out:
www.megaupload.com/?d=V3I3YT3A

It would be pretty funny if greg did this on stage, dontcha think?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=uiatGbaCxE0

I wholeheartedly agree. There are so many 'unconventional' songs which don't follow the standard BR 'fast punk song' template, but I think that the balance makes the records much more dynamic and complete. That's one of the reasons why I adore The Process Of Belief. Its diversity makes it so great for me.
BTW, Mr A, could you please transfer that show? And if possible, in lossless format. That would be so appreciated.

The Sabotage cover is just a one minute (or so) rendition with Jay on vocals, kind of an outro after the final regular song. It's that bootleg from the Coesfeld 1994 show I have on tape - but not ripped to mp3.
I still don't get what's all the fuss about Honest Goobye. BR recorded quite many "odd" songs in the last 15 years: Two Babies In The Dark, All Good Soldiers, Struck A Nerve, No Substance, I Love My Computer (meh!), Boot Stamping, etc...
All this current unfounded negativity reminds me of some spoiled little brat throwing a temper tantrum, Paris Hilton style. Get a life kids, seriously.

Regarding the Boston Avalon show, after a quick check there are at least eight ones, so I doubt it's the '94 where the cover was played.
And Mike, you forgot Institutionalized from the 2003-04-12 - Las Vegas show when listing all the covers.
And it seems Freebird was played in Frisco in 2002, when a kid shouted for it. Jay and Brain started it, but Greg didn't know the lyrics, so he left the stage for the kid to sing it. (Courtesy from the Answer.)

Jay, I thought of another good question I think a lot of people would be interested in knowing the answer to. When you guys play Atomic Garden, how do you decide what to rant about in the outro? Is it an on-the-spot stream of consciousness, or do you plan out the phrases or topics earlier in the day/show/tour, etc.?

I never knew you guys covered Journey. not sure what to think about that....
:P

Jay, was that the Avalon in '94? I have that show but couldn't find the song. And a couple years ago Graffin sang some of "Time After Time" a cappella. Oh man...

Freebird is such a good song. I think Brian and Jay only played the intro or something like that.

what about bostons "longtime", played at the avalon in boston.
or journeys "lights"? we've played that a couple of times in s.f.

shit! i forgot frosty the snowman add that one.

Covers, as far as I know/have:
Johnny B. Goode
Rock'N'Roll
Louie Louie
Riding The Storm Out
Media Blitz
Parade of the Horribles
Problems
Give Punk A Chance
We're A Happy Family
Silent Night
Fuck Christmas
I Saw The Light
Feed The World
The First Noel
Joy to The World
Blitzkrieg Bop
Hurry Up Harry

Teases:
Takin' Care of Business
My Sharona
Tom Sawyer
Fortunate Son

and supposedly they played Freebird at least once, but i can't confirm that.

'Sounds too much like an Offspring song.' ;)
And the two covers are from the 1983-03-31 - Skylite Club show, also known as All Our Yesterdays (where they played It's Only Over When You Give Up and The Dichotomy!).

:P

"but for my money I prefer Shattered Faith"
cue the Jay rant...

News From The Front is a good song, isn't it? And I love the melody on Markovian Process, also Who We Are is really good, but for my money I prefer Shattered Faith.
PS I have a couple of live versions of Johnny B. Good and Louie Louie (don't ask me where from), two more covers they've done.

Haha, Jay, you wouldn't be willing to upload your appearances on KROQ this week by chance, wouldn't you? ^^

Thanks jay. I haven't really gotten into honest goodbye (yes my tone is changing guys, but I'm talking to jay now) and I truly don't like it. I really am a diehard BR fan though, which is probably why my opinion sounds so critical. Its honestly the first song I've ever heard from you guys and felt negative about though...(okay maybe let it burn). Either way, wasn't trying to disrespect you or say you weren't a real fan or whatever it was that happened. Are you a real BR fan by the way Jay, lol. Anyways, we do appreciate your coming here so thanks.

"Comments by time to change my pseudonym from Global Citizen on 2007-05-15 @ 21:34
so i've read all of this and am saddened. Way too much to go through to find out who's me, who's not me, and who's posing as me. Didn't say most of the crap posted as me though. I'm sorry I said I didn't like honest goodbye, and I stand by that. But I didn't think it would incite people to act like me and make comments I would never make.
Dear Jay Bentley, would never argue with you about BR and hope you beleive that."
even if you did argue, that's okay. i think i am capable of learning... and arguments are just robust discussions!
anyway, like i said.. no worries, i'm not anything but grateful for all of this.

Mr. A, what show is "Sabotage" from? can you share?

Agreed! As I stated somewhere else, the bonus tracks from the Stranger Than Fiction sessions are all outstanding. I'm so glad I got my hands on the european special edition the day it came out, it works sooo much better as an entity with News From The Front and Markovian Process included. And I must say that I dislike the thought of 50/50 songwriting share 'politics' in BR. I always thought it's quality first - damn egos.
And yes, Who We Are is easily one of the best songs from the Process Of Belief sessions, the rough production included. Great vocals, great guitars, great bass lines (1:35 min!) and Brooks kills on drums. I can't stress enough how his addition rejuvenated BR's sound IMO!
Oh yes, and as for playing covers live: I heared them play the Ramones cover "We're A Happy Family" live on the WDR Rocknacht in D?sseldorf in 1992 as an introduction to their show, with Brett on lead vocals and Greg offstage. And Beasty Boys' "Sabotage" butchered live in 1994! More please!

dang..they cancelled kevin and bean here and replaced it with adam carolla.

Well good luck with that, hehe
Also it is good to see a lot of the people who complained have relocated so we can have this nice discussion about News From the Front. Thanks to those people who have had a change of heart.
Almost forgot to add my thoughts on NFTF, I love it. My second favorite B-side next to Leaders and Followers :D

yes... loveline thurs. night 10pm to midnight, then kevin and bean fri. morning.. i think we're getting there at 7am... ugh. i'm already tired... haha

Is that like a dating service or something?

You guys are a bunch of chicks! Bad Religion is scheduled to be on Loveline (Kroq) on Thursday May 17 at 10:00 P.M.

Um, I THINK I just heard an announcement that BR will be on Loveline on KROQ on Thursday.....
Holy moly, I spend far too much time listening to KROQ....

I don't want to sound preachy, but.. i think that these people should try to respect and be a little more grateful to the creators of this site and the members of the group that bother to come here and actually read about what we have to say. It'd be nice if you could try to do this. Thanks. Oh, and for those who want to offend me after these comments.. you can write to my address, don't bother everyone else here. Thank you.
*end of the monologue*
Sorry about that.. I feel better now.
Anyway.. I agree with who says that News From The Front is a great song and it's bad that it didnt make it on the record in the US.. If i'm not wrong, even Markovian Process was excluded from that, right? I'm glad its on the european version.. Perfect lyrics. The line "Facts are sterile, not vulgar nor sublime, and they're not religion, they're for everyone, and signify the times" is one of my favourites by Bad Religion.

Hi everyone. It's good to see that once in a while someone comes up with nicer and more interesting arguments than"honest goodbye sucks". It's really sad to see how unappreciative some people can be. Brett and Jay are trying to provide to us informations and get in touch with fans.. and, yes.. i mean.. FANS.. not someone who just can write about how much their songs suck. I also think that these people should express their feelings in other ways. Don't like a song and want to tell everyone about it? There's a forum for that. Or if its really urgent, e-mail the band itself. I might be wrong, but to me it doesnt seem that nice to ruin a place like this, where real fans want to get in touch with other fans, or better yet, the band itself, and have honest and civil conversations.

hahah Graffin is so sketchy.

fie-buh-muh-la-duh-the tall shining city!

Also, I consider "Ignorance, is the root of fear, and fear is the kindling of anger" to be my favourite lyric of all-time, any band, any song ever. Jay if that was you, kudos. If not, please pass it along to the appropriate wordsmith.

Yep. San Francisco. Maritime Hall : Jan 16, 1999.

There are recordings of News From The Front live? Where have I been? Oh right...

What versions have you got Mike?
I've only got News From The Front live in San Fransisco.
Is there another one?

I see. Thanks Jay.

apathy tends to undermine a songs urgency.
better to leave it remembered as is on the record.

hahahah so is that what it is? just too hard to sing correctly consistently?

"...recording of it and graffin totally messes up the lyrics,..."
:)

Thanks Jay, i guess that explanation makes a lot of sense, as much as it sucks. NFTF is such a kickass song...why exactly will it never make the setlist though? I have a recording of it and graffin totally messes up the lyrics, but why couldn't it crack the list, not familiar enough to the audience? performance issues? negative bias towards it by band members?

so i've read all of this and am saddened. Way too much to go through to find out who's me, who's not me, and who's posing as me. Didn't say most of the crap posted as me though. I'm sorry I said I didn't like honest goodbye, and I stand by that. But I didn't think it would incite people to act like me and make comments I would never make.
Dear Jay Bentley, would never argue with you about BR and hope you beleive that.

Aw, that's pretty much the worst reason ever. Should've taken out Television if anything. ;) News From The Front is worlds better.
And that's really sad about Who We Are, since it led to the chances of you guys playing it live being probably even less than for News From The Front. :/ Shame about it. It's one of my favorite songs from the TPoB time.

The first few times I listened to it, it reminded me of a David Bowie song, but I can't pick it up anymore.

news from the front was a political albatross that was sacrificed in order to keep the album 50/50 between the songwriters... too bad.
who we are is a great song, imo. that said, brett was unhappy with the final results and decided against adding it on the track listing. i always liked the "better than" part, it reminded me of bowie

news from the front was a political albatross that was sacrificed in order to keep the album 50/50 between the songwriters... too bad.
who we are is a great song, imo. that said, brett was unhappy with the final results and decided against adding it on the track listing. i always liked the "better than" part, it reminded me of bowie

That's too bad. :( News From The Front is such a class song. Why was it taken off the US records, but appeared on pretty much every other, BTW?
And what do you think of Who We Are, apart from Brett?

brian and i have transposed news from the front twice, but to no avail. the odds of that song being played are slim to none. and slim just left town...

News From the Front is my favourite (i was going to say best, but cauht myself :P) bad rleigion song of all time. I don't know what it is, that song is just too freaking fantastic. What are the odds of inserting THAT into the setlist?

but Jay didnt you co-write the music to news from the front?
Just for the record I also think it's really great that Jay and Brett take the time to post here, it is very cool of you. These comments are by far the best source of new BR info : )

ultimately, brett wasn't happy with the finished song, and made the decision to keep it off the record. it is certainly his prerogative to do so as the songs composer.
we usually have more of a debate about what songs go on over what songs someone is willing to remove... except news from the front. that was a bummer.

Again, Jay would be the authority but I remember hearing that the opinion was that Who We Are didn't have the same tone as process, and just didn't fit. Personally, I think that it probably DOES function better as an anomaly unto itself, but I wouldn't be able to compare it to a mastering of the album in which it was included.

I don't hear any true bass solo in Kyoto Now! but Jay would be the authority...the guitar solo sure follows the same structure as TOTL's bass solo though.

So, is this just gonna be an interview, or are they going to play some songs?

Bass solos (from what I can remember):
Epiphany (just before Brian's solo)
Kyoto Now!
Broken
Los Angeles Is Burning (small "fill" rather)
Turn On The Light
and there's probably more, but I'm too lazy to go finding them.

Comments by AltF4 from United States on 2007-05-15 @ 02:03
Ooh, I got one!
What's the other song that has a bass solo?
I know that Turn On The Light has one, but I heard that there is another one somewhere, but I can't for the life of me think what it is!...
is it kyoto now? i swear it's almost the same solo. don't know what the hell i was (or wasn't) thinking...

HEY! i happen to like Follow The Leader too! its annoying at first, and maybe annoying later, but somewhere in the middle it gets cool... i dont know, i was reading the first arguements on this page and both of those guys sound like they need a life, one talks shit all dy to people he'll never meet, and the other fights with the guy who talks shit buy trying to sound somewhat intellectual by talking shit using examples... i thought it was funny, keep dem comin'...
anyways, i think that that they didn't include Who We Are becuase they were protecting us... yup... if they had put that one on there hen i think i would've popped! That album was the 'bee's knees' yup yup.

How embarrasing, I thought it was a misprint!
But yeah, you're right about that one.

I said FULLER, as in it was a fully formed song, and not just verse chorus verse chorus.

They lyrics may be the best ever written by Brett IMO.
Filler songs on TPOB:
Destined For Nothing and The Lie.

Ok my mistake.
It does feel like a fuller song though.

"A bit long"
It's 3.02.

Maybe it's because it's a bit long and I'm used to it seprately, but I think now it would seem out of place on Process of Belief.
I still love it though.

These aren't solos, but the basslines during the bridges on STF and Who We Are are pretty sweet.
Who We Are, by the way, would have been the greatest song on TPOB. It's a mystery why they didn't include it.

Yeah.

Well, I thought of that before, but then it's just an intro really. I assumed it would be more of a solo similiar to Turn On The Light.
Later!

Fuck Armageddon? later!

Ooh, I got one!
What's the other song that has a bass solo?
I know that Turn On The Light has one, but I heard that there is another one somewhere, but I can't for the life of me think what it is!

See ya!

jeez I have been on this thread too much, too consistently, I'm going to eat wings. thanks for the great responses Jay and AltF4, hope to see you both soon!

Leave lot sof insightful commentary for me to read whenst I should return.

I see.

hahahah that is a great answer.

not really too much... it's like hearing your own voice on the answering machine..

Haha!

Or new ones? not that I er, made one...but if you needed a copy of a recent show in Toronto...I could hook you up maybe.

On that note, do you ever listen to old live recordings made by fans Jay?

hahahah! Just trying to illustrate my point! :D

(1992/04/19, or 2002/06/15 for example)
Stop showing off!

I take that back, second best. There are a few live version of No Control where on the very last "-trol" of the song Brett sings a high note harmonizing with Greg on the low end. (1992/04/19, or 2002/06/15 for example) Amazing. I don't know if you could hit that note Jay, but if I had the opportunity to hear that one harmony live i would die a happy man.

Mike, you seem to be forgetting the "Did you live?" spliced with "Always on the edge", creating "Did you live on the edge?" between them in Honest Goodbye.

I think the "Our Heroes, and martyrs" line in the chorus with the mirroring BGV's on a different cadence (Jay that's all you dude) is probably the best use of background vocals I have ever heard from the band (or at least, my favourite :P)

Cool, thanks.
Although, of what we've heard of New Maps of Hell, Honest Goodbye has good backing lyrics for the chorus, and I loved the awesome combination of Greg's main vocals and the backing vocals for the last line in the chorus for Heroes & Martyrs, so it's all good so far.

there is a song called submission complete that has a cool 5/4 beat... we were comparing it to the defense in our discussions about production..

Thanks Jay, that was pretty insightful.

*different

A quick question for Jay -
Is there any big, complex songs on New Maps of Hell like "The Defense"?
I love how it's so detailed, and the diferent layers of lyrics.
If you're not willing to give everything about the album away just yet it's ok.

Thanks Jay, that is interesting to see that.
I think it deserves a place in the wiki. :)

Comments by Bad Brett from Sweden on 2007-05-15 @ 01:27
Wonderful! Jay, is there a possibility that you'll upload more songs from the new record before the release (for example "Heroes and Martyrs" that everyone has heard live?
By the way, you did a great job with the harmonies. I love the part when you sing "Did you court" ;)
Bad Brett! You're supposed to sweeten him up with compliments BEFORE making the request.

factors that affect the sound.
1. production values and understanding recording techniques.
2. equipment that was previously unavailable, either financially or simply didn't exist.
3. gaining a knowledge of the individual instruments involved, and their place in relation to mixes and eq's.
other factors
1. tempos. early recordings were simply play as fast as you can. there are still a few songs like that, but not as many.
2. much more experimentation on our part in the search for notes and phrases that may be just out of the ordinary, or even just different for us.
3. the biggest one i think.. the catalog is full of songs that people have been listening to for years, and any new material is promptly judged against these recordings. in years to come, these songs will be considered "classics". it has happened with every record we have made since suffer.

Wonderful! Jay, is there a possibility that you'll upload more songs from the new record before the release (for example "Heroes and Martyrs" that everyone has heard live?
By the way, you did a great job with the harmonies. I love the part when you sing "Did you court" ;)

To abuse the fac that Jay has been on this thread quite a bit, and hell who knows perhaps this will diffuse some of the tension...

Jay, why does Bad Religion sound the way it does (currently, vs the past, etc.). You say you're not trying to please anyone else, you don't need to worry about the label, what factors do you think affect the sound. Is it just what you think sounds the best, or a conscious absorption of influences? Is it by and large spontaneous, thought out? a product of studio experimentation or building upon previous work? just looking for a little insight...

and just so you know, the mp3 of honest goodbye is streaming at epitaph.com and should be on the myspace page by now..

Yeah, I have yet to witness a cover, I hope to (the closest I got was Tom Sawyer, you damn teases!) Thanks for the response Jay!

they're not idiots. i just think they might be looking for something that we are not. it's very hard to please everyone artistically, so we don't really try to do that. just like a painting or a book, a sculpture or a play, it's all subjective and everyone will have their own opinion.
thats what makes all this so great, so many people with so many different points of view!

Seems like every topic on the new album and the songs go to shit very fast. At least Jay is here sticking up for the band this time around rather than just let the idiots jump to conclusions. Thanks Jay :)

I know there isn't room in the show to do this feasibly, but I love the shows that open or closed with cover (tongue in cheek) like "Give Punk a Chance" or "Feed the World."
those songs were only played at kroqs accoustic christmas... most of the live covers we do are just spontaneous black flags or circle jerks.. sometimes sham 69...
but we don't rehearse, which is why we suck live!
hahaha i joke.. it's joking

i'm not going anywhere, except on tour... and danny has some valid points, and his opinion is as important as everyones..
he is free to express it and i feel free to rebuke it. no worries...

Speaking of live performances and setlists, how much rehearsing does the band tend to do before a tour? I was thinking that it would be kickass if the band (re)worked out a good cover or two (like in the early 90s) to work into the set on a semi-regular basis. I know there isn't room in the show to do this feasibly, but I love the shows that open or closed with cover (tongue in cheek) like "Give Punk a Chance" or "Feed the World."

*Officially gives up*

Jay please please don't leave. I don't exactly know how to keep this shit down, but for the sake of those who don't want to flame please keep visiting.

@The Real Danny Halloway (whether that's actually real or not) Jabberwock is Jay. As in Bentley. As in Bad Religion's bass player. Maybe before you start throwing shit around you should politely participate in some threads and learn about the peple involved. Cool it or you'll ruin a good thing, like a certain piggie, eh Jay?

Sheesh... its like everyone wants this to be their last album.
Try not to destroy the things you hold dear.

danny,
the reason we don't play many gray race songs live is that they are too high in register for greg to sing every night. we've gone through that.
i said that brett wanted to write the perfect pop song, you get your facts straight.
i swear i have to say this again...
how do you know why we don't play certain songs onstage? i know you're not there when we make the setlist, so how exactly do you know? have you ever heard any of the discussions we've had over which songs to play? come on, you have to really admit you're talking out of your ass...
and, you're right...i'm not a real fan.

Broken is awesome live.
It doesn't sound like the CD because I think on the CD the verse bit is done with accoustic guitars, and when they play it live it is done with bass.

They really never could perform Honest goodbye live and have it sound that sharp. Why do you think they never play "Broken" live? Or most of the songs on Gray Race? They would never be able to sing/play "Parallel" that sharp. Same with Portrait of Authority. It sounds so bad on Tested. You all may not agree with these points, but they are valid opinions. I love BR for how raw they sound live, so its not a knock on them to say they couldn't pull off the overproduction live.

Michael_long that was very big of you to extend the olive branch. I graciously accept it.
As for you jabberwock, its almost like your not a real BR fan. Brett has publicly stated (I think its even in Palladium) that he's alway wanted to write the perfect pop song. That wasn't my assumption, so please get your facts straight.
AS FOR THE FAKE DANNY HOLLOWAY. I didn't learn the word moniker from a Bad Religion song. I'm glad that you exposed your source of new vocabulary words though. Its actually sad that you pointed that word out from a BR song. It just kind of proves that BR is what you associate that word with.

Yeah, I thought so.

Thanks Jay!

friday

Um.... anyway....
Supposed to be on the Kevin & Bean show, between 5:30 and 9:00am, Pacific Time. Haven't announced which day yet, but I'm guessing it'll be later in the week, to promote the Weenie Roast.

"oh my god will you please stop.
you talk about assumptions and then make them yourself. unless you were there in the studio (which i am quite certain you were not), please dont tell everyone what we were doing... thank you, that is all..."
Pffft don't let it bother you jay tis not work it as long as you and the band are happy with and it is what you guys want to be doing then let the small minority shake their little cage.

Alright, I started reading this, said "Fuck not again" and agreed to not even acknowledge this new thread with a comment. then I saw Jay's comment and got scared. It's starting to piss him off and I don't blame him. Brett hasn't posted in awhile either. Guys it's getting to the point that an unbelievably great thing is being ruined. It happened on the Original Bad Religion Message Board, it no longer exists. It is amazing that the guys have been willing to move over to here. DON'T FUCKING WASTE THEIR AND EVERYONE ELSE'S TIME. Go join the forum section of this site, I will make a thread about how much you all hate the new stuff and you can complain as much as you want, and thos eof us who don't want to hear can ignore you and talk to the actual band members about positive topics. For the last time, drop the "I'm so punk I don't like their new stuff" shit, there is now a time and a place for it, and it is not here. Thank you.

c'mon the lyrics are poor, i.e the lack of them, i hate the constant repeating of the same lyrics, theres so much missing,i.e more words in the chorus and more verses, its just a sing along pop song admit it man.

Hey I dont know what all you are talking about, Honest Goodbye is rad.. period. Its a classic BR anthem and has all the qualities of a great BR song.
John
BRtoOz

What I meant to say: "You Must be in your early thirties or late twenties now (...)"
If the whole album turns out to be as odd as "Into The Unknown", THEN we'd have a basis for our wondrousness - I highly doubt it. Patience!

Comments by Martin from Belgium:
I'm sorry to offend anybody here but I'm really not that impressed with either Honest Goodbye or Heroes and Martyrs. This is only my opinion remember. I have been a fan for a real long time now [14 years] and I love this band greatly but I am getting a little worried these days. A bands music does change over time but I do feel that Bad Religion is running out of steam these days. I really think their shining bright light has been dimmed.
A fan for 14 years? Hello newbie. So you feel worried because out of the 16 (sixteen) songs from the new album, you got to hear 2 (two)? You must be in your early twenties now, but you still seem to have the impatience of a 13 year old. Wait for the complete album I say. And although I prefer my BR albums to sound a bit more rough (? la 'Who We Are'), the production of the new one reminds me of 'The Gray Race', which rocked IMO. As for BR running out of steam: Uhm, no. The last two albums were their best since 1994.

"Mediocre Minds is good too. You just didn't get it because of your er, mediocre mind.
Brett's endless endeavor to write the perfect pop song got the best of him now. This song is overproduced and they could never get it to sound that way live. The goal was clearly to write a song that could have been on mainstream rock radio in the mid90s. Sadly, Greg made me cringe when he tried to carry the note on "killing machine". To make it worse he says, "how did you get so mean?"...ouch."
oh my god will you please stop.
you talk about assumptions and then make them yourself. unless you were there in the studio (which i am quite certain you were not), please dont tell everyone what we were doing...
thank you, that is all...

me agrees with Ana but this thread is major lawlz.
if i ever get into a serious band, this would be a great example of how leaking songs is both the worstest and bestest evar.
.sarcasm

All I have to said is:
My dad is better than your dad...!
.

actually it wasn't me who used your moniker. And im sorry if I assumed you didn't know those songs. And I'm sorry if I called you an idiot. And the Dodo is actually a pretty good song, I was just thinking about that today. But i'm just so used to the run-of-the-mill BR fans who hopped on the BR band-wagon oncde KROQ started playing Sorrow a few years ago. My apologies. I guess you and I have different opinions.

since I'm being such a high and mighty ass i might as well let people use my moniker, because it's not my name, it's my MONIKER! hey, i learned that word from the bad religion music and i must now use their lyrics as my own words. please continue to use my moniker as your moniker okay?

Wait, I just read more comments. Whoever posed as my moniker and said "so what if sorrow is my favorite song" is an idiot. Thats not my FAVORITE BR song. I do suspect it was Michael long though.

Michael_long you are an idiot. I love the way you just assumed all the crap you wrote to me. I have in fact heard all of the b-sides you listed. Also, Sorrow does happen to be one of my favorite songs. Its not the best, but up there.
I'll give you Qeen of the 21st century when it comes to horrible, but Universal Cynic and The Dodo are really good songs. They are well written lyrically and have a lot of content. Queen of the 21st Century is pretty bad though (she's a lean mean fighting machine...)
Mediocre Minds is good too. You just didn't get it because of your er, mediocre mind.
Brett's endless endeavor to write the perfect pop song got the best of him now. This song is overproduced and they could never get it to sound that way live. The goal was clearly to write a song that could have been on mainstream rock radio in the mid90s. Sadly, Greg made me cringe when he tried to carry the note on "killing machine". To make it worse he says, "how did you get so mean?"...ouch.

I might just be crazy, but isnt the really important thing in bad religion songs the lyrics?....and lets face it, whether you dislike the "poppy" sound of Honest Goodbye or not, the lyrics are still very good...and that also goes for other songs that i've heard people bash ,like Boot Stamping on a Human Face Forever. But thats just my two cents...everyone is entitled to their opinions and beliefs...thats the best part about free will

Both Honest Goodbye and Heroes and Martyrs are both done well musically. My disappointment with them stems from both songs leaving you wanting something more. As far as most BR songs go, along mainstream music in general, they seem to be condensed versions of longer songs. They both seem to need an additional verse and some sort of bridge to make them sound complete. Regardless, the songs are still very much in the vein of BR's most recent musical stylings.

I'm sorry to offend anybody here but I'm really not that impressed with either Honest Goodbye or Heroes and Martyrs.This is only my opinion remember.
I have been a fan for a real long time now[14 years]and I love this band greatly but I am getting a little worried these days.
A bands music does change over time but I do feel that Bad Religion is running out of steam these days.I really think their shining bright light has been dimmed.

Comments by Ana from Germany on 2007-05-13 @ 19:07
Sometimes... you guys really make me want to bang my head against a wall. :/
HAHAHAHAHAHAA =)

Honest Goodbye is a great song. Why is everyone so obsessed with BR should sound like the old records? I personally think they have did some of their best work on the latest ones.

Comments by Danny Holloway from Global Citizen on 2007-05-13 @ 18:38
so what if sorrow is my favorite song it is way better then Honest goodbye
This is hilarious.
Anyways, I like The Dodo... AND Universal Cynic...

The oooh and woahs and ooohs and woooahs are a bit tedious, but i wouldn't say it sucks - graffin's voice again rocks.
In fact, no BR song sucks. some i like better than others, but they all are worthy of playing everyday.

Sometimes... you guys really make me want to bang my head against a wall. :/

so what if sorrow is my favorite song it is way better then Honest goodbye

sometime they will, they will play some song... do you really know if they're going to KROQ?

haha Follow the Leader is GREAT!! cracks me up everytime

I think the only Bad Religion song that's so bad I can't listen to it is "Follow The Leader".

ALL I have to say is:
Atheist PEACE PLEASE!!!

What's wrong with the Universal Cynic? That's a pretty good song I think.

Michael and danny, go fuck yourselves or each other. I hate you both.

You probably think the song sucks because you fail to understand the story. Try reading a book, you know, one of those things with bits of paper stuck together?
Sucks ass? You my friend, suck ass.

Okay, this thread got off to a bad start...

Ummm, Danny Holloway, I believe you are forgetting a few songs. What about... "The Dodo", "Queen of the 21st Century", "The Universal Cynic"?
Oh, maybe you haven't heard of these. Well, that would mean that you're not the biggest BR fan out there. That probably means that you're just another idiot. Which reminds me, go ahead and add "Mediocre Minds" to the long list of songs that are far worse than "Honest Goodbye".. Argh, people like you piss me off. Throw all your brand new Bad Religion t-shirts away. You know, the ones you bought at the concert you went to after you heard "Sorrow" on the radio. Let me guess, Sorrow is your favorite BR song, right? Idiot

Bigger than me? Honest Goodbye doesn't care if you like it or not.

Honest goodbye sucks ass. I'm sorry, I'm the biggest BR fan out there. But the record needs to be be set straight. Easily the worst Bad Religion song ever recorded. I'm so dissapointed.