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#metoo

Printed From: The Bad Religion Page
Category: Miscellaneous
Forum Name: Inner Logic
Forum Description: Beware of intelligent debate about politics, environment, religion and philosophy! Enter at your own risk!
URL: https://www.thebrpage.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8875
Printed Date: 09/22/2020 at 16:34
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Topic: #metoo
Posted By: notciv
Subject: #metoo
Date Posted: 02/23/2020 at 07:37
Thoughts punks.

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My best shout
503ed...



Replies:
Posted By: Leeps
Date Posted: 02/23/2020 at 10:21
I’m sure there are valid complaints out there, but I think it is getting too extreme. People are getting fired over touching someone’s back/shoulder. I’m from an older generation when we tolerated more (and I’m not saying we should have tolerated it) so it is hard for me to understand.


Posted By: notciv
Date Posted: 02/23/2020 at 14:48
I understand what you are saying leeps. When I hashtagged me too yesterday for the first time it was to gain support/energy for a serious series of crimes by a man 3 years ago. I agree that I was taken aback somewhat by #metoo hashtags that talked about kissing cousins. I don't want to judge these people and I do understand them but I want Justice on my case. Short of being the Canadian who blockades railways for a cause, no harm in talking.

The trauma from serious assaults is so intense that boundaries get blitzed then strengthened far far away from yourself and those boundaries are physical but fluid. Touch my shoulder at your own risk! we all need an arm length of space between each other in this lovely sardine can of humanity.

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My best shout
503ed...


Posted By: Banjo
Date Posted: 02/23/2020 at 15:45
Originally posted by Leeps Leeps wrote:

I’m sure there are valid complaints out there, but I think it is getting too extreme. People are getting fired over touching someone’s back/shoulder.




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I owe RoboPilgrim 9p.


Posted By: Leeps
Date Posted: 02/24/2020 at 07:50
Banjo, David Silverman’s termination from atheist alliance international was for touching someone’s back at a party.


Posted By: Banjo
Date Posted: 02/24/2020 at 08:22
Originally posted by Leeps Leeps wrote:

Banjo, David Silverman’s termination from atheist alliance international was for touching someone’s back at a party.

No it wasn't:

(TW: Sexual Assault) http://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/peteraldhous/david-silverman-atheist-fired-sexual-misconduct


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I owe Jabberwock coffee.
I owe RoboPilgrim 9p.


Posted By: Leeps
Date Posted: 02/24/2020 at 08:44
Yes it was. What do you claim he did?


Posted By: Leeps
Date Posted: 02/24/2020 at 08:52
That article is not about his termination from AAI.


Posted By: Banjo
Date Posted: 02/24/2020 at 09:21
Originally posted by Leeps Leeps wrote:

That article is not about his termination from AAI.


Ah, sorry, there seems to be several for that person.

I've looked into the more recent one. He resigned before an investigation could be completed. He wasn't fired.

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I owe Jabberwock coffee.
I owe RoboPilgrim 9p.


Posted By: Leeps
Date Posted: 02/24/2020 at 09:35
Ok.


Posted By: Leeps
Date Posted: 02/24/2020 at 09:37
The allegation that was made that resulted in his being placed on leave was touching someone’s back at a party.


Posted By: Banjo
Date Posted: 02/24/2020 at 09:53
Originally posted by Leeps Leeps wrote:

The allegation that was made that resulted in his being placed on leave was touching someone’s back at a party.


Are you sure? It wasn't the shoulder, it was the small of her back. He then harassed her afterwards via text messages.

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I owe Jabberwock coffee.
I owe RoboPilgrim 9p.


Posted By: Leeps
Date Posted: 02/24/2020 at 09:56
I’m sure. Touching her back is why he was put on leave and ‘investigated”.


Posted By: Banjo
Date Posted: 02/24/2020 at 10:05
Originally posted by Leeps Leeps wrote:

I’m sure. Touching her back is why he was put on leave and ‘investigated”.


I don't want anyone touching the small of my back. It wasn't an accident. It's creepy and not ok, especially when it's someone who was not long ago fired for sexual assault. He's getting no plausible deniability from me.

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I owe Jabberwock coffee.
I owe RoboPilgrim 9p.


Posted By: Leeps
Date Posted: 02/24/2020 at 10:10
Ok, well that’s what I’m talking about. I don’t give a shit if someone touches my back unless they keep doing it after I say to stop. It might be a generation difference, I don’t know. I am Dave’s age. I just don’t see this as a reason to be investigated. I feel like the whole thing has gone too far and frankly it turns me off of the movement. That’s my opinion.


Posted By: Banjo
Date Posted: 02/24/2020 at 11:48
"Victims should stop reporting harassment because if they do it'll just put me off supporting victims" is a poor take and awful narrative. I hadn't heard anything about that guy until you mentioned him and going by his history of sexual assault he seems like a real piece of work. #MeToo is long overdue.

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I owe Jabberwock coffee.
I owe RoboPilgrim 9p.


Posted By: Leeps
Date Posted: 02/24/2020 at 11:50
If you think it’s harassment to have your back touched, then that’s a difference between you and me.


Posted By: Banjo
Date Posted: 02/24/2020 at 13:26
Originally posted by Leeps Leeps wrote:

If you think it’s harassment to have your back touched, then that’s a difference between you and me.


It wasn't just touching her. He told her that if she spoke about it then it would be his suicide. That's not normal behaviour. That's abuse and harassment.

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I owe Jabberwock coffee.
I owe RoboPilgrim 9p.


Posted By: Leeps
Date Posted: 02/24/2020 at 13:46
She should be able to speak about it, but why would she? It was HER BACK. I personally wouldn’t find it noteworthy, but that’s me.


Posted By: Joe Dawson
Date Posted: 02/24/2020 at 14:42
Now i'm 37. And i ... i don't want to hurt anyone, all right !
I can talk about my personal experience so i will tell about the polish womens.
i had couple bad situations with polish womens.
Like the ladys at the job who was saying bad things to me and i couldn't do anything. 
Polish womens can be like Alexis from Dynasty.
They're lie and manipulate to take revenge on the guy.

For the record - i would never ever molesting  any woman ! ! !
And #metoo at the start was something really , really good. 
But now there are couple of womens who's just lieing using the action
to take revenge on ex - boyfriend, ex - husband or the colleague.
That's why #metoo stopped being something cool.

People just overdo with #metoo.

You Asked.


Posted By: Robo Pilgrim
Date Posted: 02/24/2020 at 17:17
http://www.theguardian.com/film/2020/feb/24/harvey-weinstein-guilty-trial-charges-verdict" rel="nofollow - http://www.theguardian.com/film/2020/feb/24/harvey-weinstein-guilty-trial-charges-verdict

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Posted By: notciv
Date Posted: 02/24/2020 at 18:11
I like the discussion here and it doesn't matter your opinion because you're entitled to it, and the discussion is good.

I didn't #metoo when it was cool and that was on purpose.

I graduated high school over 25 years ago. Touching the small of a lady's back in Canada is intimate.

The more people report sexual assault, the more files there are that compile actual criminals who actually assault women. In Canada, the statistics are mind-boggling as to the guilty verdicts on sexual assault cases against women, the number of reports, etc...

https://thewalrus.ca/why-many-women-cant-get-justice-from-sexual-assault-trials/#.XlFocoClI74.facebook" rel="nofollow - Click me here

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My best shout
503ed...


Posted By: Alice
Date Posted: 02/27/2020 at 03:54
I agree, it's all gone a bit mad. There's some really serious shit happening out there that's getting lost in all the complaining about very minor things.
The current code of conduct at my work place says it's harassment if it's "repeated and unwelcome". Note that that's anything- either verbal or physical harassment.
Once can be an oopsie (depending on severity), twice is questionable, but more than that is a problem.

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Posted By: Banjo
Date Posted: 02/27/2020 at 08:03
I'm just fed up of the "some people misreport it" rhetoric. It's irrelevant. If someone is behaving in bad faith then it's a separate issue. Some people falsely accuse others of murder or theft. Does that mean we should stop trying to investigate and prosecute these things?

I feel sorry for those who are falsely accused but it's a separate issue and is a garbage reason against #MeToo.


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I owe Jabberwock coffee.
I owe RoboPilgrim 9p.


Posted By: Joe Dawson
Date Posted: 02/27/2020 at 14:07
Banjo, homicide and stealing something is something different.
You can't compare it to the molesting.
I'm a guy and the sh**t stick to me like a glu.
it doesn't matter that the accusation was false. In 2030 people from the neighborhood
will say : "That's the guy who was molesting a women!
Now look at the David Letterman. He's kinda down. He's big time career is over.
He maybe gonna get to the peak again, but the stick sh**t never fall off.


Posted By: Robo Pilgrim
Date Posted: 02/27/2020 at 14:41
David Letterman got his own Netflix show after admitting to numerous affairs. He's fine. 

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Go on take a swig of that poison and like it


Posted By: Banjo
Date Posted: 02/28/2020 at 05:42
Yeah, not as many careers are being ruined as people are suggesting. Louis CK is still doing standup.

I have sympathy for anyone wrongly-accused but it has nothing to do with real victims.

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I owe Jabberwock coffee.
I owe RoboPilgrim 9p.


Posted By: Robo Pilgrim
Date Posted: 02/28/2020 at 11:31
Since we’re talking about things that can’t really be compared, how about the fear of being falsely accused of harassing someone and the fear of actually being harassed.

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Go on take a swig of that poison and like it


Posted By: notciv
Date Posted: 02/29/2020 at 00:55
Originally posted by Robo Pilgrim Robo Pilgrim wrote:

Since we’re talking about things that can’t really be compared, how about the fear of being falsely accused of harassing someone and the fear of actually being harassed.


Fear is all about security right? To fear being harassed once is, in a relative sense, no big thing. To fear being harassed twice is a virtual nightmare. To fear being accused of harassment once is a pretty big thing I bet, especially if it is the type of man to touch women without respecting intimacy or some safely assumed personal boundaries. What I'm trying to conclude here is that a man accused twice of harassment will change his behaviour in a positive manner, predictably by being careful where one gets physical with another.

In Canadian courts, the prosecution is called Crown and must prove the guilty mind as well as intent to commit the crime, in a duality nature where one does not go without the other. Let's talk about guilt. The guilt of being a victim has some intense psychology to it. "What did I do to deserve this?" I can only suppose that the guilt of being falsely accused has some serious psychology to it too. "What type of man am I or do I look like?"

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My best shout
503ed...


Posted By: Robo Pilgrim
Date Posted: 02/29/2020 at 09:56
Originally posted by notciv notciv wrote:

 

Fear is all about security right? To fear being harassed once is, in a relative sense, no big thing. To fear being harassed twice is a virtual nightmare. 

Saying it's no big thing is just normalising it when no one should ever have to experience it.

Quote
To fear being accused of harassment once is a pretty big thing I bet, especially if it is the type of man to touch women without respecting intimacy or some safely assumed personal boundaries. 

If he does that then it's not a false accusation.

Quote
What I'm trying to conclude here is that a man accused twice of harassment will change his behaviour in a positive manner, predictably by being careful where one gets physical with another.

If he's been accused twice then chances are he's also done it several other times and I doubt he would change his behaviour quite so easily. He'll just target someone who's less likely to speak out or at the very worst threaten them into not speaking out. 



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Go on take a swig of that poison and like it


Posted By: notciv
Date Posted: 02/29/2020 at 10:58
Originally posted by Robo Pilgrim Robo Pilgrim wrote:


Originally posted by notciv notciv wrote:

 

Fear is all about security right? To fear being harassed once is, in a relative sense, no big thing. To fear being harassed twice is a virtual nightmare. 

Saying it's no big thing is just normalising it when no one should ever have to experience it.

Quote
To fear being accused of harassment once is a pretty big thing I bet, especially if it is the type of man to touch women without respecting intimacy or some safely assumed personal boundaries. 

If he does that then it's not a false accusation.

Quote
What I'm trying to conclude here is that a man accused twice of harassment will change his behaviour in a positive manner, predictably by being careful where one gets physical with another.


If he's been accused twice then chances are he's also done it several other times and I doubt he would change his behaviour quite so easily. He'll just target someone who's less likely to speak out or at the very worst threaten them into not speaking out. 



Interesting male perspective. Thanks.


Posted By: coop
Date Posted: 03/07/2020 at 03:11
Biden

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