(Note: About 1/40th of this interview appeared in Reflex magazine)

Singer GREG GRAFFIN and guitarist BRETT GUITEREZ (or Mr. Brett as he's been calling himself lately) were interviewed at West Beach Recording, Brett's recording studio, in Hollywood, California, on January 2, 1990. Brett was in the midst of mixing a hardcore band, and graciously took time out from this session to sit for the interview with Greg, who drove from his home. That week, the band had just released their 4th LP No Control, so there isn't as much of a discussion of their new work as there would be had this session occured a month or so later. But there's much to talk about anyway! 

          Bad Religion formed around 1980 in the Valley section of L.A., a group of high school teen-agers in their first band. Their first record was a self-titled 7" 6 song EP, released, as has every record they've put out, on their own label Epitaph Records. Several gigs (including a memorable one supporting The Damned in '82 at Godzillas in the Valley) led to the release of their debut LP, an acknowledged classic of the early 80's So-Cal punk explosion, '82's How Could Hell Be any Worse, with a photo of Hollywood on the cover in case you couldn't figure out what they were referring to. The record outsold just about every non-Dead Kennedy hardcore/punk LP of the time, and with tracks on the Someone Got Their Head Kicked In compilation and the Public Service comp., they'd established themselves as one of the best bands on the peaking punk circuit, raising expectations for the followup, '83's Into The Unknown. To the shock of those who purchased it, however, the LP was as far from punk as imaginable, bearing more of a resemblance to mainstream rock; many reviews compared it to Steve Miller Band and Journey, thanks to the overuse of cliched synthesizer solos throughout the record. The LP produced one of the most extreme reactions of hatred ever witnessed in the fanzine world, as publication after publication spewed invective. The group also seemed finished; bassist JAY and drummer PETE had dropped out before the 2nd LP was recorded, and now Graffin was headed to Wisconsin to attend college (a drawing of the state appears on the LP), and their old fans seemed to want them to quit anyway. However, the truth is that misled production values aside, the songs themselves were quite good, and taken as a rock LP rather than as a punk band's 2nd LP, it really was quite a good work, with pardonable indulgences. Certainly, "Chasing The Wild Goose" and "It's Only Over When" rank among their finest songs, though Bad Religion aren't likely to agree. For the most part they disowned it, as was evidenced by their next release.

          The title of '85's comeback EP said it all. Recorded during a break from Graffin's education, Back to The Known brought Bad Religion back to the punk fold, led by new guitarist GREG HETSON, who had been playing 2nd guitar with them live off and on since the early days, and who was on loan from his own band CIRCLE JERKS. "Yesterday" and "Frogger" set the tone of what was to come in more recent times, straight out adrenalin rushes, yet not as fast as most thrash and with great songwriting. The other 3 tracks seem like outtakes from that beleagured 2nd LP only devoid of the syths and processed vocals, perhaps the three best tracks of their career to date, since it melded the best of the styles of the first 2 LPs. This is ironic since, as this interview reveals, that had been their intention on that 2nd LP! Strange!

          The band wasn't heard of again until '87, when the band reassembled on a more permanent basis, college over, everyone settled into life in their 20's. They played regularly in L.A., and managed to re-recruit all the original members for the first time since the first LP, with Hetson now ensconed on 2nd guitar as a full member. 1988 brought Suffer, with its startling array of speedy songs and unusual lyrics (many of which even the best educated person would be forced to look up), their fastest most intense LP ever! (until the new one) It also brought them to the East Coast for their first proper tour here, including great dates at CBGB, The Pipeline in Newark, and Trenton's City Gardens.

          1989 meant a triumphant Summer tour of Europe, their largest base of fan support outside of L.A., the recordings that produced No Control, and a support slot with BUZZCOCKS in November at the Santa Monica Civic Center. Which brings us to this interview. Having seen them the week before headlining a big show at Reseda's Country Club in the valley, an equipment breakdown and slam-marred hardcore fest (see L.A. section), the conversation begins with a discussion about the things observed at that show and about the Suffer LP. Thanks to Greg and Brett for their time and for making such a good time of it; This interview contained more laughter than any other I've done, and nobody was drinking. Perhaps since they view the band as a hobby of sorts, they can make light of the group more easily than others; or perhaps they're just like that. I will say it was a pleasure to interview them, especially Greg who is among the smartest people in the world having anything to do with rock 'n' roll, as you'll see.

GREG: There's a new song called "The Henchman" that has a slower tempo, but only 1/2 the song.

JR: The only criticism I have of Suffer, which was one of my favorite LPs of '88, was that since so many of the tempos are the same, the songs meshed together too much. You had to play the record 5 or 10 times before you could tell the songs apart. I've only heard the title track from the new LP, I've heard it on the radio, and that sounds the same too! What's up?

BRETT: I prefer all the songs to have their own tempo, OK? But we have a drummer that has three tempos: slow, fast and very fast. I swear to you Jack, I'm not exaggerating, I'm being honest. So having a choice between those, the only slow parts on that records are in "I Give You Nothing," that's the slow tempo. The fast tempo is "When" and the ultra-fast tempo is "How Much Is Enough." Those are the 3 tempos, that's all he can play. I could beat my head against the wall in the studio for 24 hours and it wouldn't make any difference, he couldn't do it. (to Greg) Am I exaggerating?

GREG: You'll find the same disparity on this new record with the 3 tempos, but I think he's pushed the limit a little higher.

GREG + BRETT: Yeah, the fast is faster, the very fast is even faster, and the slow is a little slower, (both laugh), but less steady though.

JR: And live he plays even faster than on the records, judging from last week's show. "Suffer" and "How Much Is Enough" went flying by so fast I barely recognized them!

BRETT: Well there's no telling, basically if you've noticed his counts...This interview is like the interview of PETER. (laughs) But when Peter starts a song 1-2-1-2-3-4, and that's so we can all start at the same time, but that's all that means, because even then it's anyone's guess how fast the song's going to be. And we all go the speed of him.

GREG: Oh God! What you cue in to is that first snare beat. In the days before we came to New York I used to start the songs with my hands. I'd give him a good long clap, so everyone could hear the tempo, but even that didn't work.

JR: I think we'd better change the subject or we'll be hearing from Pete's attorney. 

GREG: It's important to understand the limitations of a band when analyzing their music.

JR: Perhaps, but that's not only quite unusual, but a particularly frustrating limitation, since it hinders creative variety.

BRETT: We're not musicians. We're a punk rock band, or a hardcore band, or whatever you want to call us. We're not!

GREG: I don't think that has anything to do with it, there are punk rock bands that do have musicianship. (they argue) But in our case, no one is focused enough on music all the time to be called musicians. I think GREG HETSON is the closest thing to one 'cause he plays the most. But the other members, myself included, don't spend that much time playing music.

BRETT: The stuff that we do good is what you hear on our records. A real musician would focus more on subtleties and nuances. We try to have a good song

Only 1/3 of the interview is displayed here. The rest of the interview can be found in The Big Takeover #28 (1990), which is available as a back issue.