It didn't seem like such a big deal to interview Bad Religion singer GREG GRAFFIN and guitarist MR. BRETT GUREWITZ, the two songwriters in the band, for Alternative Press on May 9, 1994---after all, I had interviewed Bad Religion twice before---but later events cast a different light on this discussion, which took place in Burbank's Encore studio while the band completed overdubs just prior to mixing their new album Stranger Than Fiction. The eighth album by Bad Religion would be their first original release on Atlantic Records; unwilling to wait for a new LP, the label had already reissued their previous album Recipe for Hate, which was originally released on Epitaph Records, the independent label run by Mr. Brett. Breaking two more band traditions, Bad Religion did not use the Westbeach studio owned by Mr. Brett, nor did they produce their own record.

Nevermind ond Dirty mixer ANDY WALLACE produced the album in seven weeks at two LA. studios: Rumbo, owned by THE CAPTAIN AND TENILLE---Bad Religion actually met the Captain himself during the sessions---and Encore.

     Brett had seemed less happy for the past year. He seemed to smile less, laugh less, and though just as sharp mentally, he was less talkative and enthusiastic. Bits of this shine through below. Other band members have denied that Brett was strongly opposed to the decision to sign a deal with Atlantic, but there was valid concern that the departure of Epitaph's biggest selling act might hurt the label. More likely, the tension increasingly visible in Brett over the past year was the result of overwork as Epitaph began to absorb more and more of his time, as he fought to maintain the prominence and reputation of his label after the ironic departure of his own band. More tellingly, Brett later told Alternative Press that he'd began to "grow apart from certain members of the band." Perhaps bits of this are visible below as well.

     For a complete discography prior to what you see here, we refer you to our earlier interviews with Bad Religion, the first published in The Big Takeover issues 28 and 29, the second in issues 32 and 33. Those interviews are also a better overview of the band's long history; this interview is focused entirely on the present. My thanks to JANE BOETTCHER and her husband COREY for the transcription.

 

JR: Where did you track down WAYNE KRAMER?

GREG: That was Brett's idea and his experience.

BRETT: I signed Wayne Kramer to do a record for Epitaph and it just occurred to invite him to do a guest solo on the new LP.

JR: How did you come across him?

BRETT: He called me.

JR: Really?

BRETT: Yeah. He said he's got these great new songs and everyone who spoke to him pointed him towards Epitaph. He called me and said, "This is Wayne from MC5. Want to do a record?" And I said yes.

JR: Wow. Didn't you even have to hear his songs first?

BRETT: I said yes before I heard the songs. But obviously we went through all the formalities of getting a demo recorded. He always has been a great guitar player and he still is.

JR: How familiar are you with his post-MC5 work?

BRETT: I'm completely unfamiliar. However, I know he did a solo record. Regardless, the new record is going to be real great, because he's collaborating with a lot of young, contemporary artists who are Wayne Kramer fans, who are putting it together as a project. I think we'll really surprise people.

JR: Including a couple Bad Religion members, too, right?

BRETT: No, that's up to them. I don't know. But I know some guys from CLAWHAMMER and they will likely be on it. It's too early to say, but there should be a lot of cool players.

JR: And he plays on your new album.

BRETT: He plays on "lncomplete," he does a guitar solo.

JR: What other guest stars appear on this record?

GREG: I don't think there are any others...oh no, LINT [TIM ARMSTRONG] from RANCID sang part of Brett's song called "Television."

JR: No lap steel this album?

GREG: No.

JR: Too bad. I thought "Man On a Mission" from Recipe For Hate was terrific.

GREG: Yeah, there was nothing appropriate this time.

JR: How do you go about differentiating one album from the last? Do you even give it a thought?

GREG: What? In the writing process or in retrospect?

JR: Both the writing process and the recording process. No, I mean every time you have a new album to do, particularly when you have a bigger catalog, you get more to a point where your thoughts turn to "How do I not repeat myself?"

GREG: Yeah, definitely. Personally, I look at it from the perspective of where we are at the moment, and how our position at the moment has changed from the year before, or the cycle before, because a band's popularity and image is always changing. And hopefully, if you are a successful band it will always be increasing in popularity. So you have to consider with each new slice of time, "How do I want to appeal to those fans who have been with us for so long, and also have something new and fresh in there that has the potential to be heard by other people who haven't heard of us yet?"

JR: So, you're conscious of trying to broaden your audience?

GREG: Yeah I am.

BRETT: I'm not. My main goal...for me, writing a song is like pulling a rabbit out of a hat. I never know if I'm going to be able to write another decent song. I always hope I'll be able to, but I'm always surprised when I'm able to write one more, I set really short-term goals for myself. I just try to write one more song. When I start to record a new record, which is immediately after finishing the last record l'll probably start writing for the new record in a month or something---but really all I do is maybe I'll have an overall feeling for what I think the spirit of the record should be. Beyond that I just try to write a song I haven't written ever before and if I do that each time, hopefully, the record itself isn't a repeat.

JR: Have you gotten much criticism from people who say your records all sound alike?

BRETT: Not lately. We used to. The hardcore punk fans are sometimes fanatical. You know, first they complain, "All your songs sound the same," Then we released records like Generator and Recipe tor Hate so they started complaining that we changed, (Jack laughs) What I've decided is that it's better not to worry about it that much and just come up with an idea of what I want the spirit of the record to be, at least the spirit of the songs that I'm going to write this year, and then try to write the best songs possible, one at a time.

JR: So you really don't take into account at all the idea that this record you're working is in any way separate frorn what you've done in the past?

BRETT: No. No, I haven't. In fact, one thing I've tried to do is deliberately set out and tried to write a real hard, raw type of record. Well, like I said, I don't write records, I only write songs, and I can only write one at a time, but I tried really hard to write punk rock songs this year. I think there's a lot of question out there with our loyal fans as to whether we're going to change our musical style to try to appeal to, say, the KROQ audience or the PEARL JAM fan, you know what I mean, since we're now on a major label. I wanted to let them know that here's a record that our loyal fans can stand behind because it's punk as hell.

JR: Well, you more or less indirectly answered the question I really wanted to ask, but I thought it would be better if you said it instead of my asking. lt would be too easy to ask, "So, this is your first major label album. What's the pressure on you?"

BRETT: Well, there is pressure, but I feel real strongly that we should make a Bad Religion record.

GREG: Nothing Brett said has really contradicted what I said, We both agree that we feel loyalty to our early ians and we both agree that we want to make songs that sound like Bad Religion. As for my original answer about trying to write songs that can appeal to other people, it doesn't mean sacrificing the Bad Religion sound at all. lt just means taking what we've done in the past as a template and expanding on it.

JR: In fact, I actually thought Recipe For Hate was the biggest change from your previous work that you've ever made---at least it had the most new wrinkles, so to speak.

GREG: Maybe, yeah.

JR: And yet that was still an Epitaph production.

GREG: Yeah, and our punk following certainly didn't dislike it. It got us a lot of new fans, and who are we to say whether they're punk or not? That's their own personal philosophy.

JR: Well, in 1994 isn't that distinction sort of moot, anyway?

GREG: I'd probably get two diffrrent answers. I think that it definitely is.

JR: I'm hearing everybody called "punk" from the most committed hardcore, skinhead band to something definitely '70s lite-metal-rock Iike SOUNDGARDEN.

BRETT: Yeah, exactly.

JR: What is and isn't punk, it doesn't seem like anybody knows anymore. (pause) The word has become more abused than even two decades ago. Although, I think I know.

BRETT: Yeah, it's a spirit; you can tell if the music is or not.

JR: So, anyway, I guess you shouldn't even bother worrying about it.

GREG: Exactly. If you are "it" then why should you worry about it?

JR: I admit I've only heard seven songs from Stranger Than Fiction, but it almost seemed to me that some of the record is more of a return to what you were doing on Against the Grain and, to a Iesser extent, No Control.

GREG: Yeah. I think, like Brett said, I was in the same writing vein this year as he was, in trying to make songs that were truer to our heritage.

BRETT: Well, there are songs like that on our record, but there are also songs that kind of stretch the definition of what Bad Religion is. I'm not sure how many songs you heard, or which ones you heard. But there are definitely some that are risks for us.

JR: And which ones are those?

BRETT: I would say "Slumber" and "Infected" and possibly "Stranger Than Fiction" is a style of song that we haven't really done.

JR: (incredulous) You don't think "Stranger Than Fiction" is vaguely reminiscent of "Atomic Garden" (the single and video off 1992's Generator)? Even after only hearing it once, ten minutes ago...

BRETT: Well, it is basically reminiscent, but, yeah, vaguely reminiscent, I'll hand you that. But I would also say that the SEX PISTOLS are vaguely reminiscent of CHUCK BERRY, too. (all laugh)

JR: What, for you, are the newest wrinkles on the record? Where do you hear something that makes you think, "Man, there's something really nice and new for us---omething really fresh?" I didn't hear anything like that just now.

BRETT: I just told you,

JR: Well, be more specific, now that we've got the songs.

BRETT: Say what?

JR: In what way are they fresher and newer? I've got the titles now, but describe them more.

BRETT: I think "Stranger Than Fiction"

Only 1/3 of the interview is displayed here. The rest of the interview can be found in The Big Takeover #36 (1994), which is available as a back issue.