? EXPRESS: When "The Empire Strikes First" came out you said that you played most of the guitars on that record. Is the same true of "New Maps of Hell"?

? BAKER: Yeah. I play most of the guitar, because I have a higher efficiency-level. I sing on tour, but I don't sing on the records, because I'm not as good of a singer and those guys can knock out my parts in half the time it would take me. It's really not like, "Yeah! I'm the kick-ass guitarist!" It's more, "Studio time is expensive, so let's get this done."

? EXPRESS: What did you write on the new record?

? BAKER: Nothing. Brett [Gurewitz] and Greg [Graffin] each put together about 15 songs and we knocked that down to the eventual 16. There's nothing in the songwriting sense, because songwriting is dictated by a verse, chorus or something like that. There's certainly some riffage, but you don't get paid for that.

? EXPRESS: Why is it necessary for Bad Religion to have three guitarists?

? BAKER: Because Brett's function is more of the Brian Wilson of the group. He is 50 percent of the writing team, but he's not able to go on tour. He runs one of the biggest independent labels in the world [Epitaph Records] and he can't spend his summer on a tour bus. He plays with us when we're within 50 miles of his house. I replaced Brett in '94 and when he came back it was pretty contingent on that I stay, so it's the arrangement that we have and it works for everybody.

? EXPRESS: "Hell" seems to be a recurring theme for your band. Do you think that's true and what does the title of the new record mean?

? BAKER: It really is a throwback to the first record, "How Could Hell Be Any Worse?" and it echoes it, even in the artwork and the color scheme. [The phrase] "New Maps of Hell," by itself, doesn't mean that much; it's just trying to get that imagery from the first record, because it seemed appropriate.

? EXPRESS: Do you know what the lyric "Welcome to the new Dark Ages," off the new record, means?

? BAKER: Well, absolutely. At least in America, I think the new Dark Ages are evident in illegal wire-tapping, the dismantling of the Constitution, the preeminent concept of government being "Hey, trust us. We know what we're doing. Go out and spend some more money." And we're being judged on whatever qualifies as patriotism. There's a litany of things that we can use to mirror that particular time in history when everyone was afraid that, if they disobeyed the powers that be, they'd be killed ? and in many cases they were.

? EXPRESS: Do you talk about the lyrics a lot before Greg sings them, or does he pretty much just decide on them?

? BAKER: Well, Greg and Brett both write lyrics. We go through them while we're rehearsing and vet them, as it were, but they know what they're doing. We have veto power, but that's come up rarely, because we pretty much think in the same direction. They do a good job expressing themselves. I'm comfortable having it represent me.

? EXPRESS: Minor Threat and Bad Religion were contemporaries. Were you aware of Bad Religion at the time and why do you think Bad Religion continued while Minor Threat broke up?

? BAKER: I was aware of Bad Religion, but they never toured out to Washington. I had their first record and I thought it was really good. For us, they were a little off the radar, because the only California bands we became really passionate about put out multiple records and would always tour in Washington. Circle Jerks, Black Flag, bands like that.

Bad Religion's longevity, I think, is attributed to the fact that ? much like Minor Threat was an after-school hobby ? Bad Religion was exactly that for Brett and Greg, who were interested in education. Greg, you know, is a professor at UCLA. Bad Religion is his art project, and I think that having it not really taken so seriously, or as a primary vehicle for financial success, is why it continues to exist, because it's there for our expression, but it's not the end-all be-all of our existence. Minor Threat broke up because we hated each other. We're all friends now.

[Full interview]