This is the second part of the interview The Bad Religion Page did with Greg Graffin in Dortmund, Germany on August 3.
Enjoy.
TheBRPage: You’ve co-written the book with Steve Olson. Has it always been the plan to do it this way?
GG: I was having a hard time getting the ideas on paper. The ideas were there, but when I read them it made sense as a complicated jumble that my life is. I’m constantly juggling academics and music. And I’ve always respected Steve because he’s such a great science writer for streamlining the narrative. And then one morning I woke up and I said to my wife: “What if Steve Olson was my co-author?” Because I really thought Steve would do it even before I called him. And she said: “Bingo. That’s a great idea.” And when I called him he took a little bit of convincing. He said: “I knew you would be calling me, Greg. But I thought you were going to call to ask for some advice. But the more I think about the idea of co-authoring, the more I think it sounds like a great idea.” After 5 minutes he said: “The more I think about it, I think this could really be a good book.” And certainly if you think it’s easy reading it’s because he’s so great at streamlining. And while I was doing the process, it got me thinking; I’ve always been a collaborator in everything I do. Whether it’s my science, whether it’s my best albums in Bad Religion or even now in writing books. I’m a collaborator. That doesn’t take away one bit of my ideas. The ideas that I have are unique. And I feel good about them, but I always do my best work when it’s a team situation. And I think that’s an important learning theme that I went through when I did this book.
TheBRPage: Is your book about Greg Graffin or is it also a science book by Steve Olson?
GG: You’ll see when you read it that it’s my voice. And Steve didn’t want to take any of that away. It’s my voice, it’s my story and it’s my worldview. Or in German: Weltanschauung. If you ask Steve he’ll say that this is Greg’s book. But I wanted to give Steve co-author because he’s so important to me as a collaborator. And a lot of his expertise in science is in things I’m very interested in: human history, human evolution. And what he brought to this project was not only knowledge of human evolution and understanding of how we’re all related, but also the science writing aspect of it. The streamlining. The best thing now you can do to find the difference between the collaborative effort and my own style of writing is just read the rerelease of my dissertation that’s coming out. I don’t know if you saw that?
TheBRPage: It’s already ordered.
GG: You did? Thanks! [laughs] I’ll give you one also, but thanks for ordering it. It’s not signed but I’ll make an exception for you guys. [At the end of the interview we totally forgot about this, so we're empty-handed - e.d.]
I wrote an afterword for that. And you can read the introduction and read that thing and compare it to Anarchy Evolution. You’ll see that my style is a lot more academic. I think it’s just as informative, but Steve has a knack - because he’s a science writer in a magazine – he has a knack to know what’s going too far towards the academics and losing the general audience. In this book I really wanted to focus on the general audience because it says important things about evolution, it says important things about how we value science in our society. And those things have to reach the average person. It shouldn’t just be talked about in the ivory tower.
TheBRPage: Who’s the target group of Anarchy Evolution?
GG: The target group is anyone from the ages of 15, 14 year old when you're starting to get interested in big picture concepts. How the world works. All the way to first and undergraduate college students who haven’t decided what their major should be yet. So it’s really geared towards the general audience, the literary audience who is focused on some of these big picture questions.
I think it would be a little bit hard for teenagers to read, but undergraduate college students are going to find a lot of it interesting.
TheBRPage: Can a comparison be made between your book and the books by, for example, Richard Dawkins?
GG: Well, my editors would like there to be a connection – because he’s so popular and sold many books. But my connection to him is only on the issue of whether or not naturalists, of which he and I are both, should bill ourselves as atheists or as naturalists. I think it’s a much richer conversation we can have if we say we’re naturalists. He obviously has made a career out of saying that it is more important to call yourself an atheist.
TheBRPage: Talking about atheism, what’s worse? A convinced theist or an atheist (or naturalist) who hasn’t done any research to account for his position?
GG: Aren’t they both the same? If someone is a convinced theist they might have done a lot of research. So the question is: What’s worse? Someone who does no research and has blind faith or someone who does a lot of research and believes anything? I think I would take the guy who does the research and believes in almost anything. As long as they have grounds for their believes. That to me is what’s important. So it’s my belief in fact that if someone has done a lot of research and they’re still a convinced theist, that they haven’t done enough research. But at least they’re interested in doing research! That’s very important. Whereas the guy who just doesn’t do anything – the lazy atheist – to me that person needs to study a little bit more. But only if they’re going to try to express their worldview as a coherent picture of the world. If somebody just says “I don’t really care and there is no God”, then we’re not really talking about a social conversation anyway. I’m not going to judge the person. You know, most people are lazy and most people don’t do research. And we don’t have to have those conversations. I still value them the same as a human being.
TheBRPage: If you’re sitting at a table with someone you don’t know yet, are you immediately interested in their believes?
GG: That’s a good question! No, not about God. I couldn’t care less about what someone thinks. Yes I’m interested in what they do. That’s because I’m a curious person. You know, what do you do for a living? But usually I don’t start talking about someone’s deeply held convictions.
TheBRPage: So it’s never you who starts a conversation about religion?
GG: What a boring conversation that would be.
TheBRPage: It’s still something people would expect from you. Maybe even what you’re “famous” for.
GG: I don’t know what I’m famous for. That’s your guys’ job [laughs]. What I’m committed to – I don’t know if it made me famous or not – is not shying away if someone asks me those questions. So if someone wants to be provocative with me, that’s fine. I’ll gladly welcome that. And then we’re in the discussion and can talk about what it means.
TheBRPage: Do you find it difficult not to become preachy about these topics?
GG: The way to do it is to use “I” statements. I believe this. It’s based on these bits of evidence. You can check it yourself and verify it for yourself if you want to. It’s not being preachy. It’s just saying: As the book says, here’s my view and here’s why I believe this. And I think that’s the most powerful way to make a point. Not using words like “you should” and not saying words like “you’re wrong” and “this is what you ought to do”. A lot of people misconstrue provocation. Asking tough questions is not provocation. I’m not provoking people; I’m raising tough questions.
TheBRPage: One last question: If you had to choose one or more Bad Religion songs for the soundtrack of the audiobook of Anarchy Evolution, which songs would that be?
GG: Oh man, that would have to be a triad. Germs of Perfection, God’s Love obviously and We’re Only Gonna Die [laughs]. That’s a good blend.
A big thanks goes out to Greg for sharing a few precious minutes of his time with us. But also to Cathy (Bad Religion's tour manager) and Kathryn from HarperCollins Publishers.
And last but not least: BrandonSideleau, simian, susu.exp and noparadigm for giving their input for this interview.
n1ckb0n3z
Universal Cynic
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[quote=marktodd]Ref couldn't care less, may I suggest you show your friend this very funny video by David Mitchell- he even uses a graph! [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om7O0MFkmpw[/url][/quote]
That was fucking hilarious, thanks for the link 08/14/2010 at 22:02
That was fucking hilarious, thanks for the link |
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marktodd
Incomplete
![]() ![]() Location: UK Status: Offline Posts: 0 |
[quote=BRP]
I had a long debate with a friend of mine about this...[/quote] Ref couldn't care less, may I suggest you show your friend this very funny video by David Mitchell- he even uses a graph! [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om7O0MFkmpw[/url] 08/14/2010 at 16:53
Ref couldn't care less, may I suggest you show your friend this very funny video by David Mitchell- he even uses a graph! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om7O0MFkmpw |
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BRP
Man With A Mission
![]() ![]() Location: Illinois Status: Offline Posts: 578 |
[quote=sara]Also I love that GG said "I [i]couldn't[/i] care less...." rather than the misused yet ever so popular "I could care less...". :-)[/quote]
I had a long debate with a friend of mine about this... He just didn't get it. He kept arguing that "could" was the correct word to use in that phrase. I wanted to punch him. Anyway... GREAT interview. You're so lucky to have met and interviewed the Doctor! I'm jealous. I really hope there is a part III, also. 08/12/2010 at 13:09
I had a long debate with a friend of mine about this... He just didn't get it. He kept arguing that "could" was the correct word to use in that phrase. I wanted to punch him. Anyway... GREAT interview. You're so lucky to have met and interviewed the Doctor! I'm jealous. I really hope there is a part III, also. |
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frank420
Henchman
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Very good interview ! Well structured and interesting questions ! I've always been under the impression that Greg did not care about being famous, being on the spotlight or even maintaining its fan base by coming on this website and/or giving freebies. Basically, I tought that he did not give a scrap about its fans. I was also getting the same feeling when he was on stage, especially in the 1996-2006 period. Hopefully, I now understand how he seems to be dedicated to its fan base by being an hardworking writter, for both its music. It's alright that way. And as he mentions anyway, some other people are there for other matters such as marketing, finances ... or having jay or brett coming on this website (btw ... thanks guys for doing it ... that's really appreciated !) 08/11/2010 at 13:22
Very good interview ! Well structured and interesting questions ! I've always been under the impression that Greg did not care about being famous, being on the spotlight or even maintaining its fan base by coming on this website and/or giving freebies. Basically, I tought that he did not give a scrap about its fans. I was also getting the same feeling when he was on stage, especially in the 1996-2006 period. Hopefully, I now understand how he seems to be dedicated to its fan base by being an hardworking writter, for both its music. It's alright that way. And as he mentions anyway, some other people are there for other matters such as marketing, finances ... or having jay or brett coming on this website (btw ... thanks guys for doing it ... that's really appreciated !) |
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Brett Religion
The Same Person
![]() ![]() Location: Buenos Aires Status: Offline Posts: 1746 |
Excellent job, Marty and Jesse!! I think it is great that TheBRPage is now generating its own material as far as interviews and [i]scoops[/i] are concerned. Keep it up!
08/11/2010 at 09:04
Excellent job, Marty and Jesse!! I think it is great that TheBRPage is now generating its own material as far as interviews and scoops are concerned. Keep it up!
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MONOLITH
Infected
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Just now went both thru.. Nice job! Thanks!
08/08/2010 at 16:08
Just now went both thru.. Nice job! Thanks!
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SOLDSHORT
Generator
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hmmmm
08/08/2010 at 12:04
hmmmm
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coop
Infected
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this is simple now
08/08/2010 at 05:07
this is simple now
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Warstub
The Same Person
![]() ![]() Location: thebrpage Status: Offline Posts: 2344 |
[quote=Robo Pilgrim][quote=sara]
Also I love that GG said "I [i]couldn't[/i] care less...." rather than the misused yet ever so popular "I could care less...". :-)[/quote]
Yes, it's good that he can make the distinction. I don't think people who get it wrong realise they're saying the opposite of what they mean.[/quote]
Agreed. I usually say "I [i]could [/i] care less" when I'm being sarcastic and letting the other person know that they should be thankful that I even care just a little bit.
08/08/2010 at 02:44
Agreed. I usually say "I could care less" when I'm being sarcastic and letting the other person know that they should be thankful that I even care just a little bit. |
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Robo Pilgrim
Generator
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[quote=sara]
Also I love that GG said "I [i]couldn't[/i] care less...." rather than the misused yet ever so popular "I could care less...". :-)[/quote]
Yes, it's good that he can make the distinction. I don't think people who get it wrong realise they're saying the opposite of what they mean.
08/08/2010 at 00:31
Yes, it's good that he can make the distinction. I don't think people who get it wrong realise they're saying the opposite of what they mean. |
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sara
Henchman
![]() ![]() Location: Philippines Status: Offline Posts: 207 |
Great interview, guys!!! You are pros.
I agree with simian in that I think I'm equally excited for Anarchy Evolution to arrive in the mail as I am for the new BR record.
Also I love that GG said "I [i]couldn't[/i] care less...." rather than the misused yet ever so popular "I could care less...". :-)
08/07/2010 at 21:21
Great interview, guys!!! You are pros.
I agree with simian in that I think I'm equally excited for Anarchy Evolution to arrive in the mail as I am for the new BR record. Also I love that GG said "I couldn't care less...." rather than the misused yet ever so popular "I could care less...". :-) |
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Marty
Admin
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Oh, and by the way - that last question was Brett Religion's. You know, I even think most questions were his...
08/07/2010 at 12:41
Oh, and by the way - that last question was Brett Religion's. You know, I even think most questions were his...
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Marty
Admin
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Thanks a lot, everyone. But this was definitely a team effort and Jesse was just as much part of this little scheme as I was. Together with the others mentioned in the last line in the article above, we've had a list of almost 30 questions, ranging from pretty generic to very in depth questions.
Because we only found out quite late that we had 30 minutes (initially even 15) and that Greg wanted to focus mainly on the book and not so much on, for example, the new BR record, we had to shorten the list of questions significantly. However we agreed with Greg to try and have those questions answered by email. So maybe there will be a part 3....
@Simian, I still have your questions right here, so they will definitely be included.
08/07/2010 at 12:37
Thanks a lot, everyone. But this was definitely a team effort and Jesse was just as much part of this little scheme as I was. Together with the others mentioned in the last line in the article above, we've had a list of almost 30 questions, ranging from pretty generic to very in depth questions.
Because we only found out quite late that we had 30 minutes (initially even 15) and that Greg wanted to focus mainly on the book and not so much on, for example, the new BR record, we had to shorten the list of questions significantly. However we agreed with Greg to try and have those questions answered by email. So maybe there will be a part 3.... @Simian, I still have your questions right here, so they will definitely be included. |
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Graffinius
The Same Person
![]() ![]() Location: Pasadena, CA Status: Offline Posts: 2020 |
Some of the best interview questions that I've ever read. A refreshing interview. THanks Marty!
08/07/2010 at 10:34
Some of the best interview questions that I've ever read. A refreshing interview. THanks Marty!
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simian
Infected
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Haha, that was awesome. If I'd known how long he'd go on in response to each question, I would have written some shorter questions. Maybe I'll e-mail my questions to him. In 2003 or 2004, when I was an undergrad teaching assistant for a biological anthropology (my major) course at U of Maryland, I e-mailed Greg a few questions about the Cornell Evolution Project and mentioned that I wanted to give his questionnaire to my students to see how they would answer. He was really gracious to write me back and tell me that he was interested to know what the results of that would be if I did it, but that he was fairly well convinced that most undergrad students wouldn't have thought through the issues yet, since as his results showed, even the world's most eminent evolutionary biologists seemed to give conflicting answers in many cases. Unfortunately I was very strapped for time that semester and never got around to giving the survey to my class I'm sure my prof would not have minded - she was really cool. Actually seemed like a naturalist in her worldview, even though she was a hijab-wearing Muslim woman. Guess that doesn't mean much, she could have just been keeping traditions out of dedication to her extended family and still been a complete naturalist in her private views. Anyway, I can't wait to read Anarchy Evolution. I'm working on a 2nd bachelors degree now in biology and hoping to study evolution and pursue a PhD in it, so I'm expecting some good inspiration/motivation from it. Actually, I'm equally as excited for Greg's new book as I am for Bad Religion's new album. And that's saying something.
Great interview, Marty. You didn't let us down!
08/07/2010 at 09:55
Haha, that was awesome. If I'd known how long he'd go on in response to each question, I would have written some shorter questions. Maybe I'll e-mail my questions to him. In 2003 or 2004, when I was an undergrad teaching assistant for a biological anthropology (my major) course at U of Maryland, I e-mailed Greg a few questions about the Cornell Evolution Project and mentioned that I wanted to give his questionnaire to my students to see how they would answer. He was really gracious to write me back and tell me that he was interested to know what the results of that would be if I did it, but that he was fairly well convinced that most undergrad students wouldn't have thought through the issues yet, since as his results showed, even the world's most eminent evolutionary biologists seemed to give conflicting answers in many cases. Unfortunately I was very strapped for time that semester and never got around to giving the survey to my class I'm sure my prof would not have minded - she was really cool. Actually seemed like a naturalist in her worldview, even though she was a hijab-wearing Muslim woman. Guess that doesn't mean much, she could have just been keeping traditions out of dedication to her extended family and still been a complete naturalist in her private views. Anyway, I can't wait to read Anarchy Evolution. I'm working on a 2nd bachelors degree now in biology and hoping to study evolution and pursue a PhD in it, so I'm expecting some good inspiration/motivation from it. Actually, I'm equally as excited for Greg's new book as I am for Bad Religion's new album. And that's saying something.
Great interview, Marty. You didn't let us down! |
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Warstub
The Same Person
![]() ![]() Location: thebrpage Status: Offline Posts: 2344 |
Great interview! Really great to see you avoiding any talk of BR until the end - nice little fun way to cap the interview off, rather than detracting from the main subject. That to me is excellent journalism!
08/07/2010 at 09:27
Great interview! Really great to see you avoiding any talk of BR until the end - nice little fun way to cap the interview off, rather than detracting from the main subject. That to me is excellent journalism!
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Sinngh
Lost Pilgrim
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That was a good interview indeed. Thanks for this!
08/07/2010 at 09:04
That was a good interview indeed. Thanks for this!
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n1ckb0n3z
Universal Cynic
![]() ![]() Location: Austin, TX Status: Offline Posts: 5074 |
Wow this interview really makes me want to go and buy the book and check out the book tour. Great interview!
08/07/2010 at 08:01
Wow this interview really makes me want to go and buy the book and check out the book tour. Great interview!
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nropevolI
Infected
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thanks for interviewing him. interesting
08/07/2010 at 05:41
thanks for interviewing him. interesting
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Marty
Admin
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Thanks! Yeah, I'm really bummed about the fact that we forgot about the dissertation. It was all minutes before the show, so there wasn't really any time left.
My favorite quote from the interview is: "Asking tough questions is not provocation".
08/07/2010 at 05:01
Thanks! Yeah, I'm really bummed about the fact that we forgot about the dissertation. It was all minutes before the show, so there wasn't really any time left.
My favorite quote from the interview is: "Asking tough questions is not provocation". |
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Robo Pilgrim
Generator
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That was a really good interview. It's nice to see some different questions that try to get onto his same level of intellect. It's a shame you forgot about the book signing, though.
08/07/2010 at 04:57
That was a really good interview. It's nice to see some different questions that try to get onto his same level of intellect. It's a shame you forgot about the book signing, though.
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